Annotating multiple-line direct speech in poetry

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Annotating multiple-line direct speech in poetry

Rath, Brigitte
Hello,

I wonder how to best annotate direct speech when it runs across multiple lines in a poem.

Here is an example, the last lines of a sonnet:

<l n="10">White with the fragrant flow'r, inclines to fall.</l>
<l n="11">' Oh Everlasting Silence keep her so !</l>
<l n="12">Immortalise this moment, lest she grow</l>
<l n="13">To such a living substance as can die !'</l>
<l n="14">He cried.   Consent Eternal heard his cry.</l>


James Cummings graciously made the following suggestion off-list:

<l n="10">White with the fragrant flow'r, inclines to fall.</l>
<l n="11"><seg type="directSpeech" part="I">' Oh Everlasting Silence keep her so !</seg></l>
<l n="12"><seg type="directSpeech" part="M">Immortalise this moment, lest she grow</seg></l>
<l n="13"><seg type="directSpeech" part="F">To such a living substance as can die !'</seg></l>
<l n="14">He cried.   Consent Eternal heard his cry.</l>

This seems to me a great way to set the utterance off from the rest of the poem.

As I'm specifically interested in addressees in sonnets, I'd like to find a way to also mark the speaker and the addressee of the utterance, if possible.

<sp>, which would allow for @who / @toWhom, however, is not allowed within <seg>. Does anyone have any ideas how to handle this?

Many thanks,
Brigitte


lou
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Re: Annotating multiple-line direct speech in poetry

lou
<sp> is intended for speeches in drama, really. If you think that each sonnet is a dramatic piece, you could maybe reorganise your encoding to use it (but you'd have to fight with nasty things like speeches divided between verse lines).

However, you don't need to. Just use <q> instead of <seg>. It has  @who and @towhom attributes. It also allows you to distinguish various types of direct speech (indirect, etc.) which may be helpful.


On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 at 17:56, Rath, Brigitte <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

I wonder how to best annotate direct speech when it runs across multiple lines in a poem.

Here is an example, the last lines of a sonnet:

<l n="10">White with the fragrant flow'r, inclines to fall.</l>
<l n="11">' Oh Everlasting Silence keep her so !</l>
<l n="12">Immortalise this moment, lest she grow</l>
<l n="13">To such a living substance as can die !'</l>
<l n="14">He cried.   Consent Eternal heard his cry.</l>


James Cummings graciously made the following suggestion off-list:

<l n="10">White with the fragrant flow'r, inclines to fall.</l>
<l n="11"><seg type="directSpeech" part="I">' Oh Everlasting Silence keep her so !</seg></l>
<l n="12"><seg type="directSpeech" part="M">Immortalise this moment, lest she grow</seg></l>
<l n="13"><seg type="directSpeech" part="F">To such a living substance as can die !'</seg></l>
<l n="14">He cried.   Consent Eternal heard his cry.</l>

This seems to me a great way to set the utterance off from the rest of the poem.

As I'm specifically interested in addressees in sonnets, I'd like to find a way to also mark the speaker and the addressee of the utterance, if possible.

<sp>, which would allow for @who / @toWhom, however, is not allowed within <seg>. Does anyone have any ideas how to handle this?

Many thanks,
Brigitte


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Re: Annotating multiple-line direct speech in poetry

Elsa Pereira
In reply to this post by Rath, Brigitte

Hello! I would use <said> like this:


<l n="10">White with the fragrant flow'r, inclines to fall.</l>
<l n="11"><said direct="true" xml:id="said6" next="#said7">Oh Everlasting Silence keep her so !</said></l>
<l n="12"><said direct="true" xml:id="said7" prev="#said6" next="#said8">Immortalise this moment, lest she grow</said></l>
<l n="13"><said direct="true" xml:id="said8" prev="#said7">To such a living substance as can die !'</said></l>
<l n="14">He cried. Consent Eternal heard his cry.</l>


Regards,
Elsa Pereira

 

Citando Rath, Brigitte <[hidden email]>:

Hello,

I wonder how to best annotate direct speech when it runs across multiple lines in a poem.

Here is an example, the last lines of a sonnet:

<l n="10">White with the fragrant flow'r, inclines to fall.</l>
<l n="11">' Oh Everlasting Silence keep her so !</l>
<l n="12">Immortalise this moment, lest she grow</l>
<l n="13">To such a living substance as can die !'</l>
<l n="14">He cried.   Consent Eternal heard his cry.</l>


James Cummings graciously made the following suggestion off-list:

<l n="10">White with the fragrant flow'r, inclines to fall.</l>
<l n="11"><seg type="directSpeech" part="I">' Oh Everlasting Silence keep her so !</seg></l>
<l n="12"><seg type="directSpeech" part="M">Immortalise this moment, lest she grow</seg></l>
<l n="13"><seg type="directSpeech" part="F">To such a living substance as can die !'</seg></l>
<l n="14">He cried.   Consent Eternal heard his cry.</l>

This seems to me a great way to set the utterance off from the rest of the poem.

As I'm specifically interested in addressees in sonnets, I'd like to find a way to also mark the speaker and the addressee of the utterance, if possible.

<sp>, which would allow for @who / @toWhom, however, is not allowed within <seg>. Does anyone have any ideas how to handle this?

Many thanks,Brigitte


 

lou
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Re: Annotating multiple-line direct speech in poetry

lou
In reply to this post by lou
[... sorry, hit send too soon.] OTOH <q> does not provide you with @ part so you would need to find some other way of indicating how the fragments of speech are to be reassembled. I think I would use <milestone unit="speech" spanTo="#endOfSpeech"/>  rather than  modifying  my ODD to permit  part. That attribute is really a rather special case...


On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 at 18:08, Lou Burnard <[hidden email]> wrote:
<sp> is intended for speeches in drama, really. If you think that each sonnet is a dramatic piece, you could maybe reorganise your encoding to use it (but you'd have to fight with nasty things like speeches divided between verse lines).

However, you don't need to. Just use <q> instead of <seg>. It has  @who and @towhom attributes. It also allows you to distinguish various types of direct speech (indirect, etc.) which may be helpful.


On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 at 17:56, Rath, Brigitte <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hello,

I wonder how to best annotate direct speech when it runs across multiple lines in a poem.

Here is an example, the last lines of a sonnet:

<l n="10">White with the fragrant flow'r, inclines to fall.</l>
<l n="11">' Oh Everlasting Silence keep her so !</l>
<l n="12">Immortalise this moment, lest she grow</l>
<l n="13">To such a living substance as can die !'</l>
<l n="14">He cried.   Consent Eternal heard his cry.</l>


James Cummings graciously made the following suggestion off-list:

<l n="10">White with the fragrant flow'r, inclines to fall.</l>
<l n="11"><seg type="directSpeech" part="I">' Oh Everlasting Silence keep her so !</seg></l>
<l n="12"><seg type="directSpeech" part="M">Immortalise this moment, lest she grow</seg></l>
<l n="13"><seg type="directSpeech" part="F">To such a living substance as can die !'</seg></l>
<l n="14">He cried.   Consent Eternal heard his cry.</l>

This seems to me a great way to set the utterance off from the rest of the poem.

As I'm specifically interested in addressees in sonnets, I'd like to find a way to also mark the speaker and the addressee of the utterance, if possible.

<sp>, which would allow for @who / @toWhom, however, is not allowed within <seg>. Does anyone have any ideas how to handle this?

Many thanks,
Brigitte


lou
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Re: Annotating multiple-line direct speech in poetry

lou
In reply to this post by Elsa Pereira
Elsa's suggestion is good too! You could use <q> in the same way, of course (with @next and @prev).
Or you could do it like this:

<l n="10">White with the fragrant flow'r, inclines to fall.</l>
<milestone unit="speech" spanTo="#line13"/>
<l n="11"><q who="#P1" toWhom="#addressee">Oh Everlasting Silence keep her so !</q></l>
<l n="12"><q who="#P1" toWhom="#addressee">Immortalise this moment, lest she grow</q></l>
<l n="13" xml:id="line13"><q who="#P1" toWhom="#addressee">To such a living substance as can die !'</q></l>
<l n="14" >He cried. Consent Eternal heard his cry.</l>


On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 at 18:16, Elsa Pereira <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello! I would use <said> like this:


<l n="10">White with the fragrant flow'r, inclines to fall.</l>
<l n="11"><said direct="true" xml:id="said6" next="#said7">Oh Everlasting Silence keep her so !</said></l>
<l n="12"><said direct="true" xml:id="said7" prev="#said6" next="#said8">Immortalise this moment, lest she grow</said></l>
<l n="13"><said direct="true" xml:id="said8" prev="#said7">To such a living substance as can die !'</said></l>
<l n="14">He cried. Consent Eternal heard his cry.</l>


Regards,
Elsa Pereira

 

Citando Rath, Brigitte <[hidden email]>:

Hello,

I wonder how to best annotate direct speech when it runs across multiple lines in a poem.

Here is an example, the last lines of a sonnet:

<l n="10">White with the fragrant flow'r, inclines to fall.</l>
<l n="11">' Oh Everlasting Silence keep her so !</l>
<l n="12">Immortalise this moment, lest she grow</l>
<l n="13">To such a living substance as can die !'</l>
<l n="14">He cried.   Consent Eternal heard his cry.</l>


James Cummings graciously made the following suggestion off-list:

<l n="10">White with the fragrant flow'r, inclines to fall.</l>
<l n="11"><seg type="directSpeech" part="I">' Oh Everlasting Silence keep her so !</seg></l>
<l n="12"><seg type="directSpeech" part="M">Immortalise this moment, lest she grow</seg></l>
<l n="13"><seg type="directSpeech" part="F">To such a living substance as can die !'</seg></l>
<l n="14">He cried.   Consent Eternal heard his cry.</l>

This seems to me a great way to set the utterance off from the rest of the poem.

As I'm specifically interested in addressees in sonnets, I'd like to find a way to also mark the speaker and the addressee of the utterance, if possible.

<sp>, which would allow for @who / @toWhom, however, is not allowed within <seg>. Does anyone have any ideas how to handle this?

Many thanks,Brigitte


 

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AW: Annotating multiple-line direct speech in poetry

Rath, Brigitte
Thank you, Lou and Elsa, for the instantaneous solutions. Both suggestions are great & solve my problem entirely, and I'm very grateful indeed.

Thank you both so much!
Brigitte  


Von: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [[hidden email]]" im Auftrag von "Lou Burnard [[hidden email]]
Gesendet: Dienstag, 11. August 2020 19:31
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: Re: Annotating multiple-line direct speech in poetry

Elsa's suggestion is good too! You could use <q> in the same way, of course (with @next and @prev).
Or you could do it like this:

<l n="10">White with the fragrant flow'r, inclines to fall.</l>
<milestone unit="speech" spanTo="#line13"/>
<l n="11"><q who="#P1" toWhom="#addressee">Oh Everlasting Silence keep her so !</q></l>
<l n="12"><q who="#P1" toWhom="#addressee">Immortalise this moment, lest she grow</q></l>
<l n="13" xml:id="line13"><q who="#P1" toWhom="#addressee">To such a living substance as can die !'</q></l>
<l n="14" >He cried. Consent Eternal heard his cry.</l>


On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 at 18:16, Elsa Pereira <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello! I would use <said> like this:


<l n="10">White with the fragrant flow'r, inclines to fall.</l>
<l n="11"><said direct="true" xml:id="said6" next="#said7">Oh Everlasting Silence keep her so !</said></l>
<l n="12"><said direct="true" xml:id="said7" prev="#said6" next="#said8">Immortalise this moment, lest she grow</said></l>
<l n="13"><said direct="true" xml:id="said8" prev="#said7">To such a living substance as can die !'</said></l>
<l n="14">He cried. Consent Eternal heard his cry.</l>


Regards,
Elsa Pereira

 

Citando Rath, Brigitte <[hidden email]>:

Hello,

I wonder how to best annotate direct speech when it runs across multiple lines in a poem.

Here is an example, the last lines of a sonnet:

<l n="10">White with the fragrant flow'r, inclines to fall.</l>
<l n="11">' Oh Everlasting Silence keep her so !</l>
<l n="12">Immortalise this moment, lest she grow</l>
<l n="13">To such a living substance as can die !'</l>
<l n="14">He cried.   Consent Eternal heard his cry.</l>


James Cummings graciously made the following suggestion off-list:

<l n="10">White with the fragrant flow'r, inclines to fall.</l>
<l n="11"><seg type="directSpeech" part="I">' Oh Everlasting Silence keep her so !</seg></l>
<l n="12"><seg type="directSpeech" part="M">Immortalise this moment, lest she grow</seg></l>
<l n="13"><seg type="directSpeech" part="F">To such a living substance as can die !'</seg></l>
<l n="14">He cried.   Consent Eternal heard his cry.</l>

This seems to me a great way to set the utterance off from the rest of the poem.

As I'm specifically interested in addressees in sonnets, I'd like to find a way to also mark the speaker and the addressee of the utterance, if possible.

<sp>, which would allow for @who / @toWhom, however, is not allowed within <seg>. Does anyone have any ideas how to handle this?

Many thanks,Brigitte