Events and places

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Events and places

Jesper Zedlitz
I try to write biographic data in TEI. The succeed largely. However,
there are some things that seem strange to me. Here is a small example:

<listPerson>
  <person xml:id="p1">
    <persName>
      <forename>Karl Ludwig August</forename>
      <surname>Winkelbrandt</surname>
    </persName>
    <birth when="1908-07-17" />
    <residence>
      <placeName>Köln-Kalk</placeName>
    </residence>
  </person>
  <person xml:id="p2">
    <persName>
      <forename>Karolina Margareta</forename>
      <surname>Leonhardt</surname>
    </persName>
    <birth when="1907-09-16" />
  </person>
</listPerson>

<listRelation type="personal">
  <relation xml:id="rel1" name="spouse" mutual="#p1 #2" />
</listRelation>

<listPlace>
  <place xml:id="frankfurtStNikolai"
         sameAs="http://gov.genealogy.net/object_168178">
    <placeName>St. Nikolai Frankfurt M.</placeName>
  </place>
  <place xml:id="kölnkalk"
         sameAs="http://gov.genealogy.net/KALALKJO30LW">
    <placeName>Köln-Kalk</placeName>
  </place>
</listPlace>

<listEvent>
  <event xml:id="event1" type="marriage"
         when="1936-08-08" where="#frankfurtStNikolai">
    <p/>
  </event>
</listEvent>

The <listRelation> element is not allowed as child clement of <body>. I
have already created an issue for that
<https://github.com/TEIC/TEI/issues/1552>

I understand that <residence> is a characteristic of a person, not an
event. Is it still possible to link the place, in my example #kölnkalk?

The <event> element must not be empty. Therefore, I inserted an empty
<p/> element. This is somehow unsatisfactory. Is there a better solution?

Is it possible to link a person's state, (e.g., <persName>) or a
relation with the event that triggered the change?

The marriage event #event1 is not connected to the participants. Is it
possible to link persons and events?

Regards,
Jesper

--
Dr. Jesper Zedlitz
AG Kommunikationssysteme
Inst. f. Informatik, CAU Kiel
+49 431 880 7517
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Re: Events and places

Frederik Elwert
Dear Jesper,

Am 07.12.2016 um 11:32 schrieb Jesper Zedlitz:

> I try to write biographic data in TEI. The succeed largely. However,
> there are some things that seem strange to me. Here is a small example:
>
> <listPerson>
>   <person xml:id="p1">
>     <persName>
>       <forename>Karl Ludwig August</forename>
>       <surname>Winkelbrandt</surname>
>     </persName>
>     <birth when="1908-07-17" />
>     <residence>
>       <placeName>Köln-Kalk</placeName>
>     </residence>
>   </person>
>   <person xml:id="p2">
>     <persName>
>       <forename>Karolina Margareta</forename>
>       <surname>Leonhardt</surname>
>     </persName>
>     <birth when="1907-09-16" />
>   </person>
> </listPerson>
>
> <listRelation type="personal">
>   <relation xml:id="rel1" name="spouse" mutual="#p1 #2" />
> </listRelation>
>
> <listPlace>
>   <place xml:id="frankfurtStNikolai"
>          sameAs="http://gov.genealogy.net/object_168178">
>     <placeName>St. Nikolai Frankfurt M.</placeName>
>   </place>
>   <place xml:id="kölnkalk"
>          sameAs="http://gov.genealogy.net/KALALKJO30LW">
>     <placeName>Köln-Kalk</placeName>
>   </place>
> </listPlace>
>
> <listEvent>
>   <event xml:id="event1" type="marriage"
>          when="1936-08-08" where="#frankfurtStNikolai">
>     <p/>
>   </event>
> </listEvent>
>
> The <listRelation> element is not allowed as child clement of <body>. I
> have already created an issue for that
> <https://github.com/TEIC/TEI/issues/1552>

I think the usual way is to add listRelation as a child of listPerson.
But I don’t see any general reason why listRelation should not appear
directly in body.

> I understand that <residence> is a characteristic of a person, not an
> event. Is it still possible to link the place, in my example #kölnkalk?

Yes, you can use @ref on placeName:

    <residence>
      <placeName ref="#kölnkalk">Köln-Kalk</placeName>
    </residence>

> The <event> element must not be empty. Therefore, I inserted an empty
> <p/> element. This is somehow unsatisfactory. Is there a better solution?

True, it always requires some kind of prose. You could use
<label>marriage</label> instead of <p/>, which is a bit redundant to
your type information, but would serve as a human-readable label instead
of a enum value.

> Is it possible to link a person's state, (e.g., <persName>) or a
> relation with the event that triggered the change?

Indeed, I don’t know a perfect solution for this. But the ubiquitous
@corresp might be a good fit.

> The marriage event #event1 is not connected to the participants. Is it
> possible to link persons and events?

You could use <persName> as child of <desc>:

  <event xml:id="event1" type="marriage"
         when="1936-08-08" where="#frankfurtStNikolai">
    <label>Marriage</label>
    <desc>Marriage between <persName ref="#p1">Karl Ludwig August
Winkelbrandt</persName> and <persName ref="#p2">Karolina Margareta
Leonhardt</persName>.</desc>
  </event>

Or use <listPerson> as child of <desc> for a more database-like
representation.

Best,
Frederik


--
Dr. Frederik Elwert

Digital Humanities Coordinator
Center for Religious Studies
Ruhr-University Bochum

Universitätsstr. 90a
D-44780 Bochum

Phone +49(0)234 32-23024
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Re: Events and places

Martin Holmes
In reply to this post by Jesper Zedlitz
Hi there,

Many thanks for your bug report. This encoding approach looks good, and
I see no reason why <listRelation> should not be allowed as a child of
<body> alongside the other <list*> elements.

I would be inclined to link the <placeName>Köln-Kalk</placeName> inside
the <residence> element to the <place> element in your <listPlace>,
using @corresp. You can describe a person's state using the <state>
element itself:

<http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-state.html>

and you could link this to the event that caused it, perhaps using a
<link> element.

<event> is usually completed with a prose description or a <label>
element; if you don't want to include any explanatory content, you could
simply use an empty <p/> as you have done.

Hope this helps,
Martin

On 2016-12-07 02:32 AM, Jesper Zedlitz wrote:

> I try to write biographic data in TEI. The succeed largely. However,
> there are some things that seem strange to me. Here is a small example:
>
> <listPerson>
>   <person xml:id="p1">
>     <persName>
>       <forename>Karl Ludwig August</forename>
>       <surname>Winkelbrandt</surname>
>     </persName>
>     <birth when="1908-07-17" />
>     <residence>
>       <placeName>Köln-Kalk</placeName>
>     </residence>
>   </person>
>   <person xml:id="p2">
>     <persName>
>       <forename>Karolina Margareta</forename>
>       <surname>Leonhardt</surname>
>     </persName>
>     <birth when="1907-09-16" />
>   </person>
> </listPerson>
>
> <listRelation type="personal">
>   <relation xml:id="rel1" name="spouse" mutual="#p1 #2" />
> </listRelation>
>
> <listPlace>
>   <place xml:id="frankfurtStNikolai"
>          sameAs="http://gov.genealogy.net/object_168178">
>     <placeName>St. Nikolai Frankfurt M.</placeName>
>   </place>
>   <place xml:id="kölnkalk"
>          sameAs="http://gov.genealogy.net/KALALKJO30LW">
>     <placeName>Köln-Kalk</placeName>
>   </place>
> </listPlace>
>
> <listEvent>
>   <event xml:id="event1" type="marriage"
>          when="1936-08-08" where="#frankfurtStNikolai">
>     <p/>
>   </event>
> </listEvent>
>
> The <listRelation> element is not allowed as child clement of <body>. I
> have already created an issue for that
> <https://github.com/TEIC/TEI/issues/1552>
>
> I understand that <residence> is a characteristic of a person, not an
> event. Is it still possible to link the place, in my example #kölnkalk?
>
> The <event> element must not be empty. Therefore, I inserted an empty
> <p/> element. This is somehow unsatisfactory. Is there a better solution?
>
> Is it possible to link a person's state, (e.g., <persName>) or a
> relation with the event that triggered the change?
>
> The marriage event #event1 is not connected to the participants. Is it
> possible to link persons and events?
>
> Regards,
> Jesper
>
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Re: Events and places

Jesper Zedlitz
In reply to this post by Frederik Elwert
>> The <listRelation> element is not allowed as child clement of <body>. I
>> have already created an issue for that
>> <https://github.com/TEIC/TEI/issues/1552>
>
Interestingly, it is possible to put a <relation> element inside a
<listPerson>.

>> The marriage event #event1 is not connected to the participants. Is it
>> possible to link persons and events?
>

> Or use <listPerson> as child of <desc> for a more database-like
> representation.
>
Thank you for that hint. I can even specify the role a person had in the
event. Now my <event> element looks like this:

 <listEvent>
    <event xml:id="event1" type="marriage"
           when="1936-08-08" where="#frankfurtStNikolai">
      <desc>
        <listPerson>
          <person role="groom" sameAs="#p1" />
          <person role="bride" sameAs="#p2" />
        </listPerson>
      </desc>
    </event>
 </listEvent>

Is there a place on the TEI wiki where these kind of snippets can be
preserved for posterity?

Jesper

--
Dr. Jesper Zedlitz
AG Kommunikationssysteme
Inst. f. Informatik, CAU Kiel
+49 431 880 7517
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Re: Events and places

Daniel Schwartz
Dear All,

I have had a similar problem. I am working on a prosopography that encodes factoids on persons, places, and events. A factoid is a discrete piece of information with a bibliographic reference. We collect these on a source-by-source basis. This means that instead of all the information about a single person existing in one place, it is spread across several files, potentially many files. A robust system of URI/URLs allows us to pull together and visualize the data. We found the need to nest <listRelation> according to the guidelines both unnecessary and cumbersome so we are using a customization that allows it to nest in a <div> element. (Each of our factoids receives a separate <div> with at least one bibliographic reference.) 

I've included some examples. The first <div> contains a name variant for a person and the second is an event that includes that same person. These both come from one primary source text and are encoded in the same xml document. The second contains a relationship for that same person from a separate primary source text and is therefore encoded in a separate xml document. 


                <listPerson>
                    <person>
                        <persName ref="http://syriaca.org/person/51"> Severus </persName>
                    </person>
                </listPerson>
                <bibl type="primary">
                    <ptr target="http://syriaca.org/bibl/657"/>
                    <citedRange unit="part">87</citedRange>
                </bibl>
            </div>

                <listEvent>
                    <event>
                        <desc> In <choice>
                                <reg>
                                    <date notBefore="0518-10" notAfter="0519-09" calendar="Gregorian">A. D. 499/500</date>
                                </reg>
                                <orig>
                                    <date when-custom="0830" datingMethod="Seleucid">A. Gr.
                                        830</date>
                                </orig>
                            </choice>
                            <persName ref="http://syriaca.org/person/2268"> Justin </persName>
                            deposed <persName ref="http://syriaca.org/person/51"> Severus
                            </persName> and <persName ref="http://syriaca.org/person/44"> Philoxenos
                            </persName> for refusing to accept the Council of
                                    <placeName ref="http://syriaca.org/place/622"> Chalcedon
                                </placeName>
                            . </desc>
                    </event>
                </listEvent>
                <bibl type="primary">
                    <ptr target="http://syriaca.org/bibl/657"/>
                    <citedRange unit="part">87</citedRange>
                </bibl>
            </div>
            

                <listRelation>
                    <relation ana="clerical" name="syriaca:Ordination" active="http://syriaca.org/person/2562" passive="http://syriaca.org/person/51"/>
                </listRelation>
                <bibl type="primary">
                    <ptr target="http://syriaca.org/bibl/666"/>
                    <citedRange unit="part">1.01</citedRange>
                    <citedRange unit="pp">7</citedRange>
                </bibl>
            </div>


The <listRelation> is connected to the person by including the URI/URL for that person. It is unnecessary to have this element wrapped in a <listPerson> element pertaining to one or both of the persons mentioned in the relationship. I hope this proves helpful for the current discussion.

All best,
Dan


            

On Thu, Dec 8, 2016 at 5:46 AM, Jesper Zedlitz <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> The <listRelation> element is not allowed as child clement of <body>. I
>> have already created an issue for that
>> <https://github.com/TEIC/TEI/issues/1552>
>
Interestingly, it is possible to put a <relation> element inside a
<listPerson>.

>> The marriage event #event1 is not connected to the participants. Is it
>> possible to link persons and events?
>

> Or use <listPerson> as child of <desc> for a more database-like
> representation.
>
Thank you for that hint. I can even specify the role a person had in the
event. Now my <event> element looks like this:

 <listEvent>
    <event xml:id="event1" type="marriage"
           when="1936-08-08" where="#frankfurtStNikolai">
      <desc>
        <listPerson>
          <person role="groom" sameAs="#p1" />
          <person role="bride" sameAs="#p2" />
        </listPerson>
      </desc>
    </event>
 </listEvent>

Is there a place on the TEI wiki where these kind of snippets can be
preserved for posterity?

Jesper

--
Dr. Jesper Zedlitz
AG Kommunikationssysteme
Inst. f. Informatik, CAU Kiel
+49 431 880 7517



--
Dr. Daniel L. Schwartz
Associate Professor of History
Associate Director of the Initiative for Digital Humanities, Media, and Culture

Texas A&M University
4236 TAMU
College Station, Texas 77843-4236

Paideia and Cult: Christian Initiation in Theodore of Mopsuestia (Center for Hellenic Studies, 2013)
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