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Linking TEI elements to authority records : <idno> and bibliographic descriptions

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Linking TEI elements to authority records : <idno> and bibliographic descriptions

Florence Clavaud (Ecole nationale des Chartes)
Hi all,


I would like to thank everyone for answering my questions about the
content model of <person> and <org>. I have read the references you
gave, they have been very useful for me.
About linking these elements to authority records, adding a repeatable
and typeable <idno> element seems to be a very good solution, I will use it.

I am just wondering why <idno> is not available within <biblFull>, while
it is in <bibl> and <biblStruct>? The need is quite the same (and in
fact we have it here for one project) : linking a full and accurate
"local" bibliographic description to one or more external authority records.



Florence


--
Florence Clavaud
École nationale des Chartes
19 rue de la Sorbonne
75005 Paris
Site Web de l'école : http://www.enc.sorbonne.fr
Éditions électroniques : http://elec.enc.sorbonne.fr/
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Re: Linking TEI elements to authority records : <idno> and bibliographic descriptions

Peter Stadler
Since nobody else with better insight answered yet I will put in my 2 cents:

To me it seems like a bug as well -- having dived into the specs I see that idno is added directly to biblStruct while bibl inherits idno from model.nameLike via model.pPart.data.
biblFull is modeled on teiHead but I can see no objections to add idno as child as well?!


Best
Peter

Am 24.07.2012 um 10:11 schrieb Florence Clavaud (Ecole nationale des chartes):

> Hi all,
>
>
> I would like to thank everyone for answering my questions about the
> content model of <person> and <org>. I have read the references you
> gave, they have been very useful for me.
> About linking these elements to authority records, adding a repeatable
> and typeable <idno> element seems to be a very good solution, I will use it.
>
> I am just wondering why <idno> is not available within <biblFull>, while
> it is in <bibl> and <biblStruct>? The need is quite the same (and in
> fact we have it here for one project) : linking a full and accurate
> "local" bibliographic description to one or more external authority records.
>
>
>
> Florence
>
>
> --
> Florence Clavaud
> École nationale des Chartes
> 19 rue de la Sorbonne
> 75005 Paris
> Site Web de l'école : http://www.enc.sorbonne.fr
> Éditions électroniques : http://elec.enc.sorbonne.fr/



--
Peter Stadler
Carl-Maria-von-Weber-Gesamtausgabe
Arbeitsstelle Detmold
Gartenstr. 20
D-32756 Detmold
Tel. +49 5231 975-665
Fax: +49 5231 975-668
stadler at weber-gesamtausgabe.de
www.weber-gesamtausgabe.de
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Re: Linking TEI elements to authority records : <idno> and bibliographic descriptions

Kevin Hawkins
In reply to this post by Florence Clavaud (Ecole nationale des Chartes)
While <idno> is not currently allowed as a child of <biblFull> (because
the content model of <biblFull> is nearly identical to that of
<fileDesc>), <idno> *is* allowed as a descendant of <biblFull> (and of
<fileDesc>).  So if it's an identifier for an author, you'd put it in
<author>; if it's an identifier for a publisher, you'd put it in
<publisher>, etc.

Florence, is <idno> available in an appropriate place within <bilbFull>
for the authority record you want to point to?

On 2:59 PM, Peter Stadler wrote:

> Since nobody else with better insight answered yet I will put in my 2 cents:
>
> To me it seems like a bug as well -- having dived into the specs I see that idno is added directly to biblStruct while bibl inherits idno from model.nameLike via model.pPart.data.
> biblFull is modeled on teiHead but I can see no objections to add idno as child as well?!
>
>
> Best
> Peter
>
> Am 24.07.2012 um 10:11 schrieb Florence Clavaud (Ecole nationale des chartes):
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>>
>> I would like to thank everyone for answering my questions about the
>> content model of<person>  and<org>. I have read the references you
>> gave, they have been very useful for me.
>> About linking these elements to authority records, adding a repeatable
>> and typeable<idno>  element seems to be a very good solution, I will use it.
>>
>> I am just wondering why<idno>  is not available within<biblFull>, while
>> it is in<bibl>  and<biblStruct>? The need is quite the same (and in
>> fact we have it here for one project) : linking a full and accurate
>> "local" bibliographic description to one or more external authority records.
>>
>>
>>
>> Florence
>>
>>
>> --
>> Florence Clavaud
>> École nationale des Chartes
>> 19 rue de la Sorbonne
>> 75005 Paris
>> Site Web de l'école : http://www.enc.sorbonne.fr
>> Éditions électroniques : http://elec.enc.sorbonne.fr/
>
>
>
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Re: Linking TEI elements to authority records : <idno> and bibliographic descriptions

Peter Stadler
Kevin,

thanks for clarifying. In my last message I wrongly wrote <teiHead> while correctly it should be <fileDesc>.
Nevertheless, the issue seems to be to provide an idno for the bibliographic record (e.g. ISBN) and that's lacking with <biblFull>.

Best
Peter

Am 30.07.2012 um 16:06 schrieb Kevin Hawkins:

> While <idno> is not currently allowed as a child of <biblFull> (because the content model of <biblFull> is nearly identical to that of <fileDesc>), <idno> *is* allowed as a descendant of <biblFull> (and of <fileDesc>).  So if it's an identifier for an author, you'd put it in <author>; if it's an identifier for a publisher, you'd put it in <publisher>, etc.
>
> Florence, is <idno> available in an appropriate place within <bilbFull> for the authority record you want to point to?
>
> On 2:59 PM, Peter Stadler wrote:
>> Since nobody else with better insight answered yet I will put in my 2 cents:
>>
>> To me it seems like a bug as well -- having dived into the specs I see that idno is added directly to biblStruct while bibl inherits idno from model.nameLike via model.pPart.data.
>> biblFull is modeled on teiHead but I can see no objections to add idno as child as well?!
>>
>>
>> Best
>> Peter
>>
>> Am 24.07.2012 um 10:11 schrieb Florence Clavaud (Ecole nationale des chartes):
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>>
>>> I would like to thank everyone for answering my questions about the
>>> content model of<person>  and<org>. I have read the references you
>>> gave, they have been very useful for me.
>>> About linking these elements to authority records, adding a repeatable
>>> and typeable<idno>  element seems to be a very good solution, I will use it.
>>>
>>> I am just wondering why<idno>  is not available within<biblFull>, while
>>> it is in<bibl>  and<biblStruct>? The need is quite the same (and in
>>> fact we have it here for one project) : linking a full and accurate
>>> "local" bibliographic description to one or more external authority records.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Florence
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Florence Clavaud
>>> École nationale des Chartes
>>> 19 rue de la Sorbonne
>>> 75005 Paris
>>> Site Web de l'école : http://www.enc.sorbonne.fr
>>> Éditions électroniques : http://elec.enc.sorbonne.fr/
>>
>>
>>
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Re: Linking TEI elements to authority records : <idno> and bibliographic descriptions

Florence Clavaud (Ecole nationale des Chartes)
Hi all,


Le 31/07/2012 13:15, Peter Stadler a écrit :
> Kevin,
>
> thanks for clarifying. In my last message I wrongly wrote <teiHead> while correctly it should be <fileDesc>.
> Nevertheless, the issue seems to be to provide an idno for the bibliographic record (e.g. ISBN) and that's lacking with <biblFull>.

Yes, this is my point. The <idno> would concern the bibliographic record
itself, so it should be a child of <biblFull>.

Florence


Florence Clavaud
École nationale des Chartes (Paris, France)

>
> Best
> Peter
>
> Am 30.07.2012 um 16:06 schrieb Kevin Hawkins:
>
>> While <idno> is not currently allowed as a child of <biblFull> (because the content model of <biblFull> is nearly identical to that of <fileDesc>), <idno> *is* allowed as a descendant of <biblFull> (and of <fileDesc>).  So if it's an identifier for an author, you'd put it in <author>; if it's an identifier for a publisher, you'd put it in <publisher>, etc.
>>
>> Florence, is <idno> available in an appropriate place within <bilbFull> for the authority record you want to point to?
>>
>> On 2:59 PM, Peter Stadler wrote:
>>> Since nobody else with better insight answered yet I will put in my 2 cents:
>>>
>>> To me it seems like a bug as well -- having dived into the specs I see that idno is added directly to biblStruct while bibl inherits idno from model.nameLike via model.pPart.data.
>>> biblFull is modeled on teiHead but I can see no objections to add idno as child as well?!
>>>
>>>
>>> Best
>>> Peter
>>>
>>> Am 24.07.2012 um 10:11 schrieb Florence Clavaud (Ecole nationale des chartes):
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I would like to thank everyone for answering my questions about the
>>>> content model of<person>  and<org>. I have read the references you
>>>> gave, they have been very useful for me.
>>>> About linking these elements to authority records, adding a repeatable
>>>> and typeable<idno>  element seems to be a very good solution, I will use it.
>>>>
>>>> I am just wondering why<idno>  is not available within<biblFull>, while
>>>> it is in<bibl>  and<biblStruct>? The need is quite the same (and in
>>>> fact we have it here for one project) : linking a full and accurate
>>>> "local" bibliographic description to one or more external authority records.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Florence
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Florence Clavaud
>>>> École nationale des Chartes
>>>> 19 rue de la Sorbonne
>>>> 75005 Paris
>>>> Site Web de l'école : http://www.enc.sorbonne.fr
>>>> Éditions électroniques : http://elec.enc.sorbonne.fr/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
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Re: Linking TEI elements to authority records : <idno> and bibliographic descriptions

Kevin Hawkins
In reply to this post by Peter Stadler
I was confused because Florence first said he wanted to link to an
authority record, which I took in the library cataloging sense of the
word to include a name authority record, a title authority record, or a
subject authority record.  Such uses can be handled using any of the
following:

author@ref
author/idno

title@ref
title/idno

keywords@scheme

But since Florence now says he wants to provide an identifier for a
bibiliographic record (such as an OCLC number), that is a different
matter. As explained in section 3.11 (
http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/CO.html#COBI ), in
TEI, the resource identifier section of an ISBD description is included
in <publicationStmt>.[1]  So you would put the OCLC number for the item
being cited in

biblFull/publicationStmt/idno

Peter says you might want to provide an ISBN for a bibliographic item.
Strictly speaking, there is not a one-to-one correlation between ISBNs
and bibliographic records (since one record might list both the
hardcover and softcover ISBNS, for example).  Still, if you are
providing an ISBN for the item being cited, you would also use:

biblFull/publicationStmt/idno

--Kevin

[1] I actually added this statement to the Guidelines a few years ago
once I noticed this incongruity between TEI and ISBD.  If you find this
so deplorable that you would like a new child of fileDesc & biblFull, to
go after notesStmt, for the resource identifier, I would support such a
proposal to increase the alignment of TEI and ISBD.  If so, please file
a feature request in SourceForge.
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Re: Linking TEI elements to authority records : <idno> and bibliographic descriptions

Peter Stadler
Am 31.07.2012 um 16:26 schrieb Kevin Hawkins:

> If you find this so deplorable that you would like a new child of fileDesc & biblFull, to go after notesStmt, for the resource identifier, I would support such a proposal to increase the alignment of TEI and ISBD.  If so, please file a feature request in SourceForge.

Done.

Best
Peter
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