More than one 'ref' attribute for a person

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More than one 'ref' attribute for a person

Martin Wynne-4
I want to associate a number of standardized identifiers with author
names, in order to be able to link the people in our texts with their
appearances in other texts and repositories. So for example, for John
Dolben, I want to add the following:

LCCN: n85143439
VIAF: 66813114
Electronic Enlightenment: dolbejohn0004746

We've currently got the following home-made solution as a placeholder
while we work out a more TEI-conformat way to do it:

             <author>Dolben, John, 1625-1686.<idno
type="EE:BIO">dolbejohn0004746</idno><idno
type="LCCN">n85143439</idno><idno type="VIAF">66813114</idno></author>

Following 'Best Practices for TEI in Libraries'
(http://www.tei-c.org/SIG/Libraries/teiinlibraries/3.1.0a/main-driver.html#index.xml-body.1_div.3_div.9),
I see that a 'ref' attribute in a 'persName' element would be preferred
for this type of information, and that the attribute value should
ideally be a URI. But unlike the examples in the above guide, we have
more than one attribute, and the following is not valid:

*        <author><persName
ref="http://dx.doi.org/10.13051/ee:bio/dolbejohn0004746"
ref="http://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n85143439"
ref="https://viaf.org/viaf/66813114/">Dolben, John,
1625-1686.</persName></author>

Suggestions please!

Best,
Martin

--
Oxford Text Archive,
Bodleian Libraries,
University of Oxford
Tel: +44 1865 283813
[hidden email]
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Re: More than one 'ref' attribute for a person

Lou Burnard-6
You can put multiple uris in a single @ref attribute. At your own risk though.

Sent from my Huawei Mobile

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: More than one 'ref' attribute for a person
From: Martin Wynne
To: [hidden email]
CC:

I want to associate a number of standardized identifiers with author
names, in order to be able to link the people in our texts with their
appearances in other texts and repositories. So for example, for John
Dolben, I want to add the following:

LCCN: n85143439
VIAF: 66813114
Electronic Enlightenment: dolbejohn0004746

We've currently got the following home-made solution as a placeholder
while we work out a more TEI-conformat way to do it:

             <author>Dolben, John, 1625-1686.<idno
type="EE:BIO">dolbejohn0004746</idno><idno
type="LCCN">n85143439</idno><idno type="VIAF">66813114</idno></author>

Following 'Best Practices for TEI in Libraries'
(http://www.tei-c.org/SIG/Libraries/teiinlibraries/3.1.0a/main-driver.html#index.xml-body.1_div.3_div.9),
I see that a 'ref' attribute in a 'persName' element would be preferred
for this type of information, and that the attribute value should
ideally be a URI. But unlike the examples in the above guide, we have
more than one attribute, and the following is not valid:

*        <author><persName
ref="http://dx.doi.org/10.13051/ee:bio/dolbejohn0004746"
ref="http://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n85143439"
ref="https://viaf.org/viaf/66813114/">Dolben, John,
1625-1686.</persName></author>

Suggestions please!

Best,
Martin

--
Oxford Text Archive,
Bodleian Libraries,
University of Oxford
Tel: +44 1865 283813
[hidden email]
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Re: More than one 'ref' attribute for a person

Laurent Romary
In reply to this post by Martin Wynne-4
Hi Martin!
HAL is actually putting all possible identifiers as you suggest. Maybe you should just make sure that the rest of the content of <author> is also structured (persName, etc.) so that the construct is easily queryable.
Cheers,
Laurent


Le 21 nov. 2017 à 15:15, Martin Wynne <[hidden email]> a écrit :

I want to associate a number of standardized identifiers with author names, in order to be able to link the people in our texts with their appearances in other texts and repositories. So for example, for John Dolben, I want to add the following:

LCCN: n85143439
VIAF: 66813114
Electronic Enlightenment: dolbejohn0004746

We've currently got the following home-made solution as a placeholder while we work out a more TEI-conformat way to do it:

            <author>Dolben, John, 1625-1686.<idno type="EE:BIO">dolbejohn0004746</idno><idno type="LCCN">n85143439</idno><idno type="VIAF">66813114</idno></author>

Following 'Best Practices for TEI in Libraries' (http://www.tei-c.org/SIG/Libraries/teiinlibraries/3.1.0a/main-driver.html#index.xml-body.1_div.3_div.9), I see that a 'ref' attribute in a 'persName' element would be preferred for this type of information, and that the attribute value should ideally be a URI. But unlike the examples in the above guide, we have more than one attribute, and the following is not valid:

*        <author><persName ref="http://dx.doi.org/10.13051/ee:bio/dolbejohn0004746" ref="http://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n85143439" ref="https://viaf.org/viaf/66813114/">Dolben, John, 1625-1686.</persName></author>

Suggestions please!

Best,
Martin

--
Oxford Text Archive,
Bodleian Libraries,
University of Oxford
Tel: +44 1865 283813
[hidden email]

Laurent Romary
Inria, team ALMAnaCH






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Re: More than one 'ref' attribute for a person

Christian Thomas
In reply to this post by Martin Wynne-4

Dear Martin, sandrart.net took the same approach Lou and Laurent suggest, and included their own ref-URL along with URIs to GND and VIAF and other authority files as @ref in <persName> (and similarly in <placeName> etc.). Cf. sandrart.net edition of Sandrarts L’Academia Todesca in the Deutsches Textarchiv / German Text Archive, e.g. vol. 2,1, p. [I], http://www.deutschestextarchiv.de/sandrart_academie0201_1679/15, and choose "XML-Ansicht" (view XML) of that page:
<p><hi rendition="#in">W</hi>IR <persName ref="http://ta.sandrart.net/-person-1568 http://d-nb.info/gnd/118571869 http://viaf.org/viaf/54156429">Leopold von Gottes Gnaden Erwehlter Römischer Kaiser</persName>/ zu allen Zeiten Mehrer des Reichs/ in <persName ref="http://ta.sandrart.net/-person-1568 http://d-nb.info/gnd/118571869 http://viaf.org/viaf/54156429">Germanien/ zu Hungarn/ Böheim/ Dalmatien/  Croatien und Schlavonien/ etc. König</persName>[...]</p>

Hope that helps. Best wishes
Christian



Am 21.11.2017 um 15:15 schrieb Martin Wynne:
I want to associate a number of standardized identifiers with author names, in order to be able to link the people in our texts with their appearances in other texts and repositories. So for example, for John Dolben, I want to add the following:

LCCN: n85143439
VIAF: 66813114
Electronic Enlightenment: dolbejohn0004746

We've currently got the following home-made solution as a placeholder while we work out a more TEI-conformat way to do it:

            <author>Dolben, John, 1625-1686.<idno type="EE:BIO">dolbejohn0004746</idno><idno type="LCCN">n85143439</idno><idno type="VIAF">66813114</idno></author>

Following 'Best Practices for TEI in Libraries' (http://www.tei-c.org/SIG/Libraries/teiinlibraries/3.1.0a/main-driver.html#index.xml-body.1_div.3_div.9), I see that a 'ref' attribute in a 'persName' element would be preferred for this type of information, and that the attribute value should ideally be a URI. But unlike the examples in the above guide, we have more than one attribute, and the following is not valid:

*        <author><persName ref="http://dx.doi.org/10.13051/ee:bio/dolbejohn0004746" ref="http://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n85143439" ref="https://viaf.org/viaf/66813114/">Dolben, John, 1625-1686.</persName></author>

Suggestions please!

Best,
Martin


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Re: More than one 'ref' attribute for a person

Martin Wynne-4
In reply to this post by Laurent Romary
Hi Laurent,

Many thanks for the quick and very useful reply.

We currently have this:

(1)
   <author>Dolben, John, 1625-1686.<idno
type="EE:BIO">dolbejohn0004746</idno><idno
type="LCCN">n85143439</idno><idno type="VIAF">66813114</idno></author>

I can see how I could immediately improve on that with the following:

(2)
  <author><persName>Dolben, John, 1625-1686.</persName><idno
type="EE:BIO">http://dx.doi.org/10.13051/ee:bio/dolbejohn0004746</idno><idno
type="LCCN">http://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n85143439</idno><idno
type="VIAF">https://viaf.org/viaf/66813114/</idno></author>

And an alternative might be the following (on the basis that  the
current prose form is from the Library of Congress Name Authority File,
and so it might make sense for the LCCN identifier to be more closely
associated with the contents of the <persName> element):

(3)
   <author><persName
ref="http://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n85143439">Dolben, John,
1625-1686.</persName><idno
type="EE:BIO">http://dx.doi.org/10.13051/ee:bio/dolbejohn0004746</idno><idno
type="VIAF">https://viaf.org/viaf/66813114/</idno></author>


Best wishes,
Martin

On 21/11/17 14:20, Laurent Romary wrote:

> Hi Martin!
> As you could see under https://hal.inria.fr/hal-01296498v2/tei
> HAL is actually putting all possible identifiers as you suggest. Maybe
> you should just make sure that the rest of the content of <author> is
> also structured (persName, etc.) so that the construct is easily
> queryable.
> Cheers,
> Laurent
>
>
>> Le 21 nov. 2017 à 15:15, Martin Wynne <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> a écrit :
>>
>> I want to associate a number of standardized identifiers with author
>> names, in order to be able to link the people in our texts with their
>> appearances in other texts and repositories. So for example, for John
>> Dolben, I want to add the following:
>>
>> LCCN: n85143439
>> VIAF: 66813114
>> Electronic Enlightenment: dolbejohn0004746
>>
>> We've currently got the following home-made solution as a placeholder
>> while we work out a more TEI-conformat way to do it:
>>
>>             <author>Dolben, John, 1625-1686.<idno
>> type="EE:BIO">dolbejohn0004746</idno><idno
>> type="LCCN">n85143439</idno><idno type="VIAF">66813114</idno></author>
>>
>> Following 'Best Practices for TEI in Libraries'
>> (http://www.tei-c.org/SIG/Libraries/teiinlibraries/3.1.0a/main-driver.html#index.xml-body.1_div.3_div.9),
>> I see that a 'ref' attribute in a 'persName' element would be
>> preferred for this type of information, and that the attribute value
>> should ideally be a URI. But unlike the examples in the above guide,
>> we have more than one attribute, and the following is not valid:
>>
>> *        <author><persName
>> ref="http://dx.doi.org/10.13051/ee:bio/dolbejohn0004746"
>> ref="http://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n85143439"
>> ref="https://viaf.org/viaf/66813114/">Dolben, John,
>> 1625-1686.</persName></author>
>>
>> Suggestions please!
>>
>> Best,
>> Martin
>>
>> --
>> Oxford Text Archive,
>> Bodleian Libraries,
>> University of Oxford
>> Tel: +44 1865 283813
>> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
> Laurent Romary
> Inria, team ALMAnaCH
> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>
>
>
>
>

--
Oxford Text Archive,
Bodleian Libraries,
University of Oxford
Tel: +44 1865 283813
[hidden email]

** Please note new email address and telephone number above (from November 2016) **
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Re: More than one 'ref' attribute for a person

richard light
In reply to this post by Martin Wynne-4

On 21/11/2017 14:15, Martin Wynne wrote:
I want to associate a number of standardized identifiers with author names, in order to be able to link the people in our texts with their appearances in other texts and repositories. So for example, for John Dolben, I want to add the following:

LCCN: n85143439
VIAF: 66813114
Electronic Enlightenment: dolbejohn0004746
Why not resolve the co-reference problem at source by quoting a single Linked Data URI?  In this case:

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3181362

contains lots of interesting life facts about John Dolben, as well as 8 identifiers in addition to the three you currently want to use, all in a handy machine-processible form.

Anyone who is notable enough to have multiple identifiers will probably already be in Wikidata, and if they're not, you can add them.

Richard


We've currently got the following home-made solution as a placeholder while we work out a more TEI-conformat way to do it:

            <author>Dolben, John, 1625-1686.<idno type="EE:BIO">dolbejohn0004746</idno><idno type="LCCN">n85143439</idno><idno type="VIAF">66813114</idno></author>

Following 'Best Practices for TEI in Libraries' (http://www.tei-c.org/SIG/Libraries/teiinlibraries/3.1.0a/main-driver.html#index.xml-body.1_div.3_div.9), I see that a 'ref' attribute in a 'persName' element would be preferred for this type of information, and that the attribute value should ideally be a URI. But unlike the examples in the above guide, we have more than one attribute, and the following is not valid:

*        <author><persName ref="http://dx.doi.org/10.13051/ee:bio/dolbejohn0004746" ref="http://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n85143439" ref="https://viaf.org/viaf/66813114/">Dolben, John, 1625-1686.</persName></author>

Suggestions please!

Best,
Martin


--
Richard Light
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Re: More than one 'ref' attribute for a person

Frederike Neuber
Dear Martin,

I don't know how many times author names appear in your data and not even how "big" your data is. However, the constant repetition of three links, each time an author is named, can blow up the code at the end quite a lot. Besides it is somehow redundant.
My suggestion would be to assign a project internal ID when the author is mentioned in the text that links to an index (either in a separate file or in the teiHeader) in which the various identifiers for each entity are recorded systematically (<idno type="..."> and so on).

In case, however, you want to continue with embedding the identifiers in the text, I would try to avoid the constant repetition of the base URI. This is not necessary when you have already defined an @type (e.g. VIAF or LCCN); just create the complete URI with the transformation.

Cheers,
Frederike

2017-11-21 15:57 GMT+01:00 Richard Light <[hidden email]>:

On 21/11/2017 14:15, Martin Wynne wrote:
I want to associate a number of standardized identifiers with author names, in order to be able to link the people in our texts with their appearances in other texts and repositories. So for example, for John Dolben, I want to add the following:

LCCN: n85143439
VIAF: 66813114
Electronic Enlightenment: dolbejohn0004746
Why not resolve the co-reference problem at source by quoting a single Linked Data URI?  In this case:

https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q3181362

contains lots of interesting life facts about John Dolben, as well as 8 identifiers in addition to the three you currently want to use, all in a handy machine-processible form.

Anyone who is notable enough to have multiple identifiers will probably already be in Wikidata, and if they're not, you can add them.

Richard


We've currently got the following home-made solution as a placeholder while we work out a more TEI-conformat way to do it:

            <author>Dolben, John, 1625-1686.<idno type="EE:BIO">dolbejohn0004746</idno><idno type="LCCN">n85143439</idno><idno type="VIAF">66813114</idno></author>

Following 'Best Practices for TEI in Libraries' (http://www.tei-c.org/SIG/Libraries/teiinlibraries/3.1.0a/main-driver.html#index.xml-body.1_div.3_div.9), I see that a 'ref' attribute in a 'persName' element would be preferred for this type of information, and that the attribute value should ideally be a URI. But unlike the examples in the above guide, we have more than one attribute, and the following is not valid:

*        <author><persName ref="http://dx.doi.org/10.13051/ee:bio/dolbejohn0004746" ref="http://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n85143439" ref="https://viaf.org/viaf/66813114/">Dolben, John, 1625-1686.</persName></author>

Suggestions please!

Best,
Martin


--
Richard Light

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Re: More than one 'ref' attribute for a person

Torsten Schassan-2
In reply to this post by Martin Wynne-4
ah, Frederike was a little bit faster but as I already wrote that down...


Hi Martin,

in addition to what Lou already mentioned (but is a difficult to process
path) and what Laurent added I wanted to mention what I use to call the
"authority control triple-jump":

1. In your data you mention an entity e.g. author, person, place or
whatever. From there you refer to a local authority control:

<author ref="#dolben_john">Dolben, John</author>

2. In your local authority control -in fact a pure listPerson,
listPlace, listXY- you may collect as many IDs per entity as wanted:

<listPerson>
  <person xml:id="dolben_john">
    <persName>John Dolben</persName>
    <birth>1625</birth>
    <death>1686</death>
    <idno type="lccn">n85143439</idno>
  <!-- or with full URI -->
    <idno>https://viaf.org/viaf/66813114</idno>
    ...
  </person>
</listPerson

3. In the local authority control you keep the references to external
resources, as shown above and as pointed out by Laurent.

The main issue here is, not to keep the links in the data itself but to
maintain separated, internal authority control lists. Thus you have to
encode this kind of information only once. Additionally, this local
lists will give you the opportunity to collect information about your
entity as you like. You'll never know what kind of or how much
information an external authority control will supply if retrieved
automatically.

Best, Torsten


Am 21.11.2017 um 15:15 schrieb Martin Wynne:

> I want to associate a number of standardized identifiers with author
> names, in order to be able to link the people in our texts with their
> appearances in other texts and repositories. So for example, for John
> Dolben, I want to add the following:
>
> LCCN: n85143439
> VIAF: 66813114
> Electronic Enlightenment: dolbejohn0004746
>
> We've currently got the following home-made solution as a placeholder
> while we work out a more TEI-conformat way to do it:
>
>             <author>Dolben, John, 1625-1686.<idno
> type="EE:BIO">dolbejohn0004746</idno><idno
> type="LCCN">n85143439</idno><idno type="VIAF">66813114</idno></author>
>
> Following 'Best Practices for TEI in Libraries'
> (http://www.tei-c.org/SIG/Libraries/teiinlibraries/3.1.0a/main-driver.html#index.xml-body.1_div.3_div.9),
> I see that a 'ref' attribute in a 'persName' element would be preferred
> for this type of information, and that the attribute value should
> ideally be a URI. But unlike the examples in the above guide, we have
> more than one attribute, and the following is not valid:
>
> *        <author><persName
> ref="http://dx.doi.org/10.13051/ee:bio/dolbejohn0004746"
> ref="http://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n85143439"
> ref="https://viaf.org/viaf/66813114/">Dolben, John,
> 1625-1686.</persName></author>
>
> Suggestions please!
>
> Best,
> Martin
>


--
Torsten Schassan - Digitale Editionen, Abteilung Handschriften und
Sondersammlungen
Herzog August Bibliothek, D-38299 Wolfenbuettel, Tel. +49 5331 808-130
Fax -165
Handschriftendatenbank <http://diglib.hab.de/?db=mss>
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Re: More than one 'ref' attribute for a person

richard light

On 21/11/2017 15:15, Torsten Schassan wrote:
ah, Frederike was a little bit faster but as I already wrote that down...


Hi Martin,

in addition to what Lou already mentioned (but is a difficult to process
path) and what Laurent added I wanted to mention what I use to call the
"authority control triple-jump":

1. In your data you mention an entity e.g. author, person, place or
whatever. From there you refer to a local authority control:

<author ref="#dolben_john">Dolben, John</author>

2. In your local authority control -in fact a pure listPerson,
listPlace, listXY- you may collect as many IDs per entity as wanted:

<listPerson>
  <person <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="xml:id=">xml:id="dolben_john">
    <persName>John Dolben</persName>
    <birth>1625</birth>
    <death>1686</death>
    <idno type="lccn">n85143439</idno>
  <!-- or with full URI -->
    <idno>https://viaf.org/viaf/66813114</idno>
    ...
  </person>
</listPerson
You could use this approach and include a Linked Data URL, as per my earlier suggestion. 

One challenge with Linked Data is that the URLs dereference by default to HTML, which is no use in the context of the sort of XSLT transforms we typically use to generate views of our TEI resources.  I've just been exploring how Wikidata behaves, using curl, and find that you can get RDF/XML - but you have to ask for 'text/xml' rather than the more usual 'application/rdf+xml':

curl -L -H "Accept: text/xml" https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:EntityData/Q3181362

I've written a little Windows program which mimics the above Accept header strategy, allowing such requests to be made using the XSLT document() function, with an XML response being returned.  A colleague has written a PHP version of the same thing.  If these would be helpful to anyone, please contact me off-list.

3. In the local authority control you keep the references to external
resources, as shown above and as pointed out by Laurent.

The main issue here is, not to keep the links in the data itself but to
maintain separated, internal authority control lists. Thus you have to
encode this kind of information only once. Additionally, this local
lists will give you the opportunity to collect information about your
entity as you like. You'll never know what kind of or how much
information an external authority control will supply if retrieved
automatically.
If you use a large external authority like Wikidata, you will have a good idea what the conventions for recording data will be.  Also, you get whatever data it does contain for free (in terms of your own time/effort).  The Linked Data concept is only going to work if people are - in general - prepared to rely on other peoples' data rather than re-creating it all themselves and thereby establishing yet another information silo.

Best wishes,

Richard


Best, Torsten


Am 21.11.2017 um 15:15 schrieb Martin Wynne:
I want to associate a number of standardized identifiers with author
names, in order to be able to link the people in our texts with their
appearances in other texts and repositories. So for example, for John
Dolben, I want to add the following:

LCCN: n85143439
VIAF: 66813114
Electronic Enlightenment: dolbejohn0004746

We've currently got the following home-made solution as a placeholder
while we work out a more TEI-conformat way to do it:

            <author>Dolben, John, 1625-1686.<idno
type="EE:BIO">dolbejohn0004746</idno><idno
type="LCCN">n85143439</idno><idno type="VIAF">66813114</idno></author>

Following 'Best Practices for TEI in Libraries'
(http://www.tei-c.org/SIG/Libraries/teiinlibraries/3.1.0a/main-driver.html#index.xml-body.1_div.3_div.9),
I see that a 'ref' attribute in a 'persName' element would be preferred
for this type of information, and that the attribute value should
ideally be a URI. But unlike the examples in the above guide, we have
more than one attribute, and the following is not valid:

*        <author><persName
ref="http://dx.doi.org/10.13051/ee:bio/dolbejohn0004746"
ref="http://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n85143439"
ref="https://viaf.org/viaf/66813114/">Dolben, John,
1625-1686.</persName></author>

Suggestions please!

Best,
Martin



--
Richard Light
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Re: More than one 'ref' attribute for a person

Lou Burnard-6
In reply to this post by Torsten Schassan-2
Just for the record, I'd recommend either Torsten's or Richard's
approaches. Multiple @ref values is a pig to process and maintain.


On 21/11/17 15:15, Torsten Schassan wrote:

> ah, Frederike was a little bit faster but as I already wrote that down...
>
>
> Hi Martin,
>
> in addition to what Lou already mentioned (but is a difficult to process
> path) and what Laurent added I wanted to mention what I use to call the
> "authority control triple-jump":
>
> 1. In your data you mention an entity e.g. author, person, place or
> whatever. From there you refer to a local authority control:
>
> <author ref="#dolben_john">Dolben, John</author>
>
> 2. In your local authority control -in fact a pure listPerson,
> listPlace, listXY- you may collect as many IDs per entity as wanted:
>
> <listPerson>
>    <person xml:id="dolben_john">
>      <persName>John Dolben</persName>
>      <birth>1625</birth>
>      <death>1686</death>
>      <idno type="lccn">n85143439</idno>
>    <!-- or with full URI -->
>      <idno>https://viaf.org/viaf/66813114</idno>
>      ...
>    </person>
> </listPerson
>
> 3. In the local authority control you keep the references to external
> resources, as shown above and as pointed out by Laurent.
>
> The main issue here is, not to keep the links in the data itself but to
> maintain separated, internal authority control lists. Thus you have to
> encode this kind of information only once. Additionally, this local
> lists will give you the opportunity to collect information about your
> entity as you like. You'll never know what kind of or how much
> information an external authority control will supply if retrieved
> automatically.
>
> Best, Torsten
>
>
> Am 21.11.2017 um 15:15 schrieb Martin Wynne:
>> I want to associate a number of standardized identifiers with author
>> names, in order to be able to link the people in our texts with their
>> appearances in other texts and repositories. So for example, for John
>> Dolben, I want to add the following:
>>
>> LCCN: n85143439
>> VIAF: 66813114
>> Electronic Enlightenment: dolbejohn0004746
>>
>> We've currently got the following home-made solution as a placeholder
>> while we work out a more TEI-conformat way to do it:
>>
>>              <author>Dolben, John, 1625-1686.<idno
>> type="EE:BIO">dolbejohn0004746</idno><idno
>> type="LCCN">n85143439</idno><idno type="VIAF">66813114</idno></author>
>>
>> Following 'Best Practices for TEI in Libraries'
>> (http://www.tei-c.org/SIG/Libraries/teiinlibraries/3.1.0a/main-driver.html#index.xml-body.1_div.3_div.9),
>> I see that a 'ref' attribute in a 'persName' element would be preferred
>> for this type of information, and that the attribute value should
>> ideally be a URI. But unlike the examples in the above guide, we have
>> more than one attribute, and the following is not valid:
>>
>> *        <author><persName
>> ref="http://dx.doi.org/10.13051/ee:bio/dolbejohn0004746"
>> ref="http://id.loc.gov/authorities/names/n85143439"
>> ref="https://viaf.org/viaf/66813114/">Dolben, John,
>> 1625-1686.</persName></author>
>>
>> Suggestions please!
>>
>> Best,
>> Martin
>>
>
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Re: More than one 'ref' attribute for a person

Torsten Schassan-2
In reply to this post by richard light
Dear Richard,

my suggestion is based upon my experience with projects, how they proceed, how they collect data, and what they need in order to present their project results. This is backed up by my experience working in an institution that is allowed to contribute to major authority control systems such as GND.

First of all, you may come across entities not available in the given authority control systems. Thus you need to provide a local identifier in order to stick to the encoding rules and habits (have any identifier, e.g. as @ref). And you need a local place where you gather data about these entities before you may submit this data and have it included in the authority control systems.

Additionally, within projects you might wish to present some information about entities e.g. in indices or the like. This information has to be tailored to the needs of the project and it is very likely that you will not find -or be able to separate- this data as needed.

Finally, some of the data available in authority control systems, provided as LOD, might as well be a mess. Thus you may not know where or how to look for what you need. Have a closer look at what the GND offers as RDF and you will understand.

I'm with you in the hope that future data is as nicely structured as needed for any uses but so far we cannot do without some local workarounds. If, on the other hand, that data is exposed as LOD it shall not be a silo.

Best, Torsten

 21.11.2017 um 17:04 schrieb Richard Light <[hidden email]>:

The main issue here is, not to keep the links in the data itself but to
maintain separated, internal authority control lists. Thus you have to
encode this kind of information only once. Additionally, this local
lists will give you the opportunity to collect information about your
entity as you like. You'll never know what kind of or how much
information an external authority control will supply if retrieved
automatically.
If you use a large external authority like Wikidata, you will have a good idea what the conventions for recording data will be.  Also, you get whatever data it does contain for free (in terms of your own time/effort).  The Linked Data concept is only going to work if people are - in general - prepared to rely on other peoples' data rather than re-creating it all themselves and thereby establishing yet another information silo.

Best wishes,

Richard

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Richard Light
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Re: More than one 'ref' attribute for a person

richard light

Torsten,

I would certainly bow to your immeasurably greater practical experience of TEI-based projects.  And I would agree that using the built-in listPerson authority mechanism has many practical advantages, of which the ability to record everyone mentioned in your project is not the least important.  There is also the advantage that 'your' people are all right there, in your document, and with their details in a well-understood XML format.  In that sense, putting a WikiData URI into a Person element is a win-win approach.  You've got access to the Linked Data, but you're not forced to use it.

I was motivated to join the discussion by the mention of three different identifiers for the same person: the classic 'co-reference' situation/problem.  In an ideal world, we would all use the same URI when talking about a particular individual: this would open up the possibility of cross-project (and indeed cross-domain) link-ups which are simply impossible at present.

I'm keen to explore the role that TEI documents might play within this 'person identification' ecosystem.  If, as you say, the existing Linked Data resources are variable in their quality/content/structure, this may lead to TEI projects being producers, rather than consumers, of prosopographical data (by constructing project-specific listPerson authorities). In that case, I would like to explore how we might enable this work to be exported from the project-specific TEI context so that it can be more widely shared - and linked to.  Does your work with the GND suggest some possibilities in this direction?

Best wishes,

Richard

On 21/11/2017 17:56, Torsten Schaßan wrote:
Dear Richard,

my suggestion is based upon my experience with projects, how they proceed, how they collect data, and what they need in order to present their project results. This is backed up by my experience working in an institution that is allowed to contribute to major authority control systems such as GND.

First of all, you may come across entities not available in the given authority control systems. Thus you need to provide a local identifier in order to stick to the encoding rules and habits (have any identifier, e.g. as @ref). And you need a local place where you gather data about these entities before you may submit this data and have it included in the authority control systems.

Additionally, within projects you might wish to present some information about entities e.g. in indices or the like. This information has to be tailored to the needs of the project and it is very likely that you will not find -or be able to separate- this data as needed.

Finally, some of the data available in authority control systems, provided as LOD, might as well be a mess. Thus you may not know where or how to look for what you need. Have a closer look at what the GND offers as RDF and you will understand.

I'm with you in the hope that future data is as nicely structured as needed for any uses but so far we cannot do without some local workarounds. If, on the other hand, that data is exposed as LOD it shall not be a silo.

Best, Torsten

 21.11.2017 um 17:04 schrieb Richard Light <[hidden email]>:

The main issue here is, not to keep the links in the data itself but to
maintain separated, internal authority control lists. Thus you have to
encode this kind of information only once. Additionally, this local
lists will give you the opportunity to collect information about your
entity as you like. You'll never know what kind of or how much
information an external authority control will supply if retrieved
automatically.
If you use a large external authority like Wikidata, you will have a good idea what the conventions for recording data will be.  Also, you get whatever data it does contain for free (in terms of your own time/effort).  The Linked Data concept is only going to work if people are - in general - prepared to rely on other peoples' data rather than re-creating it all themselves and thereby establishing yet another information silo.

Best wishes,

Richard

--
Richard Light

--
Richard Light