Speakers in verse

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Speakers in verse

Van Dijk, Sharon

Dear all,

I have a query and was hoping this mailing list could help me. I am transcribing and encoding pastoral poems in which there are frequently two (or more) speakers. I therefore would like to use the element <sp> within the element <lg>, which TEI does not allow, presumably because the element <sp> was made for prose dialogues. Does anyone know what the best way around this is?

Thank you for your time.

All the best,
Sharon van Dijk 

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Re: Speakers in verse

Hugh Cayless-2
<sp> can contain <lg> or <l>, so you could take that route. If speaker changes occur within a line group, you could split the <lg> up and link the parts with @prev/@next. We started doing it this way with an edition of Calpurnius Siculus but gave up because handling cases where witnesses disagree over where speaker changes occur was too complicated. We switched to using labels for speakers and not worrying about encapsulating "speeches".

Hugh


On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 12:29 PM, Van Dijk, Sharon <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear all,

I have a query and was hoping this mailing list could help me. I am transcribing and encoding pastoral poems in which there are frequently two (or more) speakers. I therefore would like to use the element <sp> within the element <lg>, which TEI does not allow, presumably because the element <sp> was made for prose dialogues. Does anyone know what the best way around this is?

Thank you for your time.

All the best,
Sharon van Dijk 


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Re: Speakers in verse

Paul Schaffner
In reply to this post by Van Dijk, Sharon
This occurs frequently not only in pastorals but in
verse drama, verse dialogues, etc. The normal approach
is to sacrifice the integrity of the <lg> (and also
of the <l>, if the speaker break happens in the middle
of a verse line), in favor of the <sp>. I.e., keep the
<sp> intact but break up the <lg>s into separate sub-<lg>s,
E.g.,

<sp>
<speaker>Speaker 1</speaker>
<lg n="1" part="I">
<l>Here is line 1 of 8</l>
<l>Here is line 2 of 8</l>
<l>Here is line 3 of 8</l>
<l>Here is line 4 of 8</l>
</lg>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Speaker 2</speaker>
<lg n="1" part="F">
<l>Here is line 5 of 8</l>
<l>Here is line 6 of 8</l>
<l>Here is line 7 of 8</l>
<l>Here is line 8 of 8</l>
</lg>
</sp>

or even

<sp>
<speaker>Speaker 1</speaker>
<lg n="1" part="I">
<l>Here is line 1 of 8</l>
<l>Here is line 2 of 8</l>
<l>Here is line 3 of 8</l>
<l part="I">Here is line 4a of 8</l>
</lg>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Speaker 2</speaker>
<lg n="1" part="F">
<l part="F">Here is line 4b of 8</l>
<l>Here is line 5 of 8</l>
<l>Here is line 6 of 8</l>
<l>Here is line 7 of 8</l>
<l>Here is line 8 of 8</l>
</lg>
</sp>

... with further complications possible.

pfs

On Fri, May 18, 2018, at 12:29, Van Dijk, Sharon wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I have a query and was hoping this mailing list could help me. I am
> transcribing and encoding pastoral poems in which there are frequently
> two (or more) speakers. I therefore would like to use the element <sp>
> within the element <lg>, which TEI does not allow, presumably because
> the element <sp> was made for prose dialogues. Does anyone know what the
> best way around this is?
>
> Thank you for your time.
>
> All the best,
> Sharon van Dijk
>


--
Paul Schaffner  Digital Content & Collections
University of Michigan Libraries
[hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/
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Re: Speakers in verse

Paul Schaffner
Here's an actual (only slightly falsified) example.

<sp>
<speaker>Straf.</speaker>
<lg part="I">
<l>My lifes short knarled thred doth stand</l>
<l>Expecting Fates impartiall hand:</l>
<l>Heav'n hath my thoughts, (my Lord) yet stay,</l>
<l part="I">Shall we nere meet againe?</l>
</lg>
</sp>
<sp>
<speaker>Cant.</speaker>
<lg part="F">
<l part="F">We may.</l>
</lg>
<lg>
<l>There's roome enough in heav'n for two</l>
<l>Have more transgrest then I or you;</l>
<l>But I what place and time forbeare</l>
<l>To name, 'tis GOD knowes when and where.</l>
</lg>
</sp>

You can also use the @prev / @next mechanism to
link separated parts of lines or stanzas, in place
of the somewhat crippled @part method. Or of course
you can do without either method.

pfs


On Fri, May 18, 2018, at 13:03, Paul Schaffner wrote:

> This occurs frequently not only in pastorals but in
> verse drama, verse dialogues, etc. The normal approach
> is to sacrifice the integrity of the <lg> (and also
> of the <l>, if the speaker break happens in the middle
> of a verse line), in favor of the <sp>. I.e., keep the
> <sp> intact but break up the <lg>s into separate sub-<lg>s,
> E.g.,
>
> <sp>
> <speaker>Speaker 1</speaker>
> <lg n="1" part="I">
> <l>Here is line 1 of 8</l>
> <l>Here is line 2 of 8</l>
> <l>Here is line 3 of 8</l>
> <l>Here is line 4 of 8</l>
> </lg>
> </sp>
> <sp>
> <speaker>Speaker 2</speaker>
> <lg n="1" part="F">
> <l>Here is line 5 of 8</l>
> <l>Here is line 6 of 8</l>
> <l>Here is line 7 of 8</l>
> <l>Here is line 8 of 8</l>
> </lg>
> </sp>
>
> or even
>
> <sp>
> <speaker>Speaker 1</speaker>
> <lg n="1" part="I">
> <l>Here is line 1 of 8</l>
> <l>Here is line 2 of 8</l>
> <l>Here is line 3 of 8</l>
> <l part="I">Here is line 4a of 8</l>
> </lg>
> </sp>
> <sp>
> <speaker>Speaker 2</speaker>
> <lg n="1" part="F">
> <l part="F">Here is line 4b of 8</l>
> <l>Here is line 5 of 8</l>
> <l>Here is line 6 of 8</l>
> <l>Here is line 7 of 8</l>
> <l>Here is line 8 of 8</l>
> </lg>
> </sp>
>
> ... with further complications possible.
>
> pfs
>
> On Fri, May 18, 2018, at 12:29, Van Dijk, Sharon wrote:
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I have a query and was hoping this mailing list could help me. I am
> > transcribing and encoding pastoral poems in which there are frequently
> > two (or more) speakers. I therefore would like to use the element <sp>
> > within the element <lg>, which TEI does not allow, presumably because
> > the element <sp> was made for prose dialogues. Does anyone know what the
> > best way around this is?
> >
> > Thank you for your time.
> >
> > All the best,
> > Sharon van Dijk
> >
>
>
> --
> Paul Schaffner  Digital Content & Collections
> University of Michigan Libraries
> [hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/


--
Paul Schaffner  Digital Content & Collections
University of Michigan Libraries
[hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/
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Re: Speakers in verse

Paolo Monella
In reply to this post by Hugh Cayless-2
Il 18/05/2018 19:03, Hugh Cayless ha scritto:
> <sp> can contain <lg> or <l>, so you could take that route. If speaker
> changes occur within a line group, you could split the <lg> up and link
> the parts with @prev/@next. We started doing it this way with an edition
> of Calpurnius Siculus but gave up because handling cases where witnesses
> disagree over where speaker changes occur was too complicated. We
> switched to using labels for speakers and not worrying about
> encapsulating "speeches".
>
> Hugh

Dear Hugh and all,

here at the ALIM project we're facing the same issue. Our text often has
something like:

        <l n="48">in amplexu simus. Cur mihi suppetias</l>
        <l n="49">quasi gravastellus das? SEDU. Ne noceam tibi.</l>
        <l n="50">CHRY. Ohe! Ne noceas, ais? SEDU. Aio: balneum</l>
        <l n="51">quis tibi persolvit, aut tu cur hodie</l>

We noticed that @part is not handled well by OxGarage (the verse is
split in the HTML), and @prev / @next is a complex encoding strategy.

Hugh, did you use <label>, <seg> or something else for speakers? Can you
provide a sample code snipped? I'm thinking of something like:

        <l n="25">
                <label type="sp" key="#dyo">DYO. </label>
                Quid istuc est?
                <label type="sp" key="@theo">THEO. </label>
                «Antiqua est palla mea; novam
        </l>

where I could use <seg> (or what you suggest) instead of <label.

Best,
Paolo


> On Fri, May 18, 2018 at 12:29 PM, Van Dijk, Sharon
> <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Dear all,
>
>     I have a query and was hoping this mailing list could help me. I am
>     transcribing and encoding pastoral poems in which there are
>     frequently two (or more) speakers. I therefore would like to use the
>     element <sp> within the element <lg>, which TEI does not allow,
>     presumably because the element <sp> was made for prose dialogues.
>     Does anyone know what the best way around this is?
>
>     Thank you for your time.
>
>     All the best,
>     Sharon van Dijk
>
>