collating relineations in TEI

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collating relineations in TEI

Janelle Jenstad

Dear TEI colleagues,

 

I am trying to find a TEI method for recording editorial relineations of verse in Renaissance drama. Context: We are taking a corpus tagged in an idiosyncratic “SGMLvish” and converting everything to TEI. Some of the conversions are relatively simple; others are requiring a wholesale rethink of our editorial procedures.

 

Our predecessor project included relineations with other textual variants in a single collation file. We are using the double endpoint attachment method for collation.

 

I’d be very glad if someone would point us to some examples in any project. Or if we are not finding the right section of the guidelines, please point me to the right spot.

 

(I don’t normally post questions to this list because I have the great good fortune of working 10 feet away from Martin Holmes. But he is on holiday. Hoping the TEI hive can help out in his absence!)

 

With thanks,

Janelle

 

Janelle Jenstad, Executive Director and Coordinating Platform Editor, Internet Shakespeare Editions ([hidden email])

Associate Professor, Department of English, University of Victoria

Director, The Map of Early Modern London

Skype:  janelle.jenstad; Cell: +1 250-858-7269; Time zone: UTC -8

 

 

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Re: collating relineations in TEI

James Cummings-4
Hi Janelle 

I think it depends what you mean by relineation. Does http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-retrace.html do what you want? 

James

--
Dr James Cummings, Academic IT Services, University of Oxford


On 24 Jul 2017 20:22, Janelle Jenstad <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear TEI colleagues,

 

I am trying to find a TEI method for recording editorial relineations of verse in Renaissance drama. Context: We are taking a corpus tagged in an idiosyncratic “SGMLvish” and converting everything to TEI. Some of the conversions are relatively simple; others are requiring a wholesale rethink of our editorial procedures.

 

Our predecessor project included relineations with other textual variants in a single collation file. We are using the double endpoint attachment method for collation.

 

I’d be very glad if someone would point us to some examples in any project. Or if we are not finding the right section of the guidelines, please point me to the right spot.

 

(I don’t normally post questions to this list because I have the great good fortune of working 10 feet away from Martin Holmes. But he is on holiday. Hoping the TEI hive can help out in his absence!)

 

With thanks,

Janelle

 

Janelle Jenstad, Executive Director and Coordinating Platform Editor, Internet Shakespeare Editions ([hidden email])

Associate Professor, Department of English, University of Victoria

Director, The Map of Early Modern London

Skype:  janelle.jenstad; Cell: +1 250-858-7269; Time zone: UTC -8

 

 


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Re: collating relineations in TEI

Janelle Jenstad

Hi James,

 

It doesn’t seem to be what we’re after. The thing we’re trying to capture is changes in the way that the verse has been set in the early print witnesses and subsequently relineated by various editors.

 

The quarto and folio text might not be set in the same way. There are lots of cases in Shakespeare where the quarto text sets a passage as prose (say) and the folio sets it as verse. Or one splits verse lines in half (in order to use up more white space), or crams two half lines onto one line (in order to use less white space).

 

Subsequent editors will combine two lines or split up one line. They might decide that the line break should come in a different place. In most cases, editors are responding to the underlying metrical pattern and number of beats.

 

We can just use the <note> element to offer a narrative description of the changes (e.g., “Rowe breaks the line after garden”). We’ve also thought about using <app> to treat lineation alongside the collations. But it’s proving to be tricky to record the lemma and reading for relineation.

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who can provide examples or thoughts!

 

Best,

Janelle

 

 

From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James Cummings
Sent: July 24, 2017 12:30 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: collating relineations in TEI

 

Hi Janelle 

 

I think it depends what you mean by relineation. Does http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-retrace.html do what you want? 

 

James

--
Dr James Cummings, Academic IT Services, University of Oxford

 

 

On 24 Jul 2017 20:22, Janelle Jenstad <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear TEI colleagues,

 

I am trying to find a TEI method for recording editorial relineations of verse in Renaissance drama. Context: We are taking a corpus tagged in an idiosyncratic “SGMLvish” and converting everything to TEI. Some of the conversions are relatively simple; others are requiring a wholesale rethink of our editorial procedures.

 

Our predecessor project included relineations with other textual variants in a single collation file. We are using the double endpoint attachment method for collation.

 

I’d be very glad if someone would point us to some examples in any project. Or if we are not finding the right section of the guidelines, please point me to the right spot.

 

(I don’t normally post questions to this list because I have the great good fortune of working 10 feet away from Martin Holmes. But he is on holiday. Hoping the TEI hive can help out in his absence!)

 

With thanks,

Janelle

 

Janelle Jenstad, Executive Director and Coordinating Platform Editor, Internet Shakespeare Editions ([hidden email])

Associate Professor, Department of English, University of Victoria

Director, The Map of Early Modern London

Skype:  janelle.jenstad; Cell: +1 250-858-7269; Time zone: UTC -8

 

 

 

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Re: collating relineations in TEI

Matthew James Driscoll
Dear Janelle,

Isn't this what the @ed attribute on e.g. <lb> is for? According to the Guidelines it "supplies a sigil or other arbitrary identifier for the source edition in which the associated feature (for example, a page, column, or line break) occurs at this point in the text".

Best,

Matthew


From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [[hidden email]] on behalf of Janelle Jenstad [[hidden email]]
Sent: 25 July 2017 00:53
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: collating relineations in TEI

Hi James,

 

It doesn’t seem to be what we’re after. The thing we’re trying to capture is changes in the way that the verse has been set in the early print witnesses and subsequently relineated by various editors.

 

The quarto and folio text might not be set in the same way. There are lots of cases in Shakespeare where the quarto text sets a passage as prose (say) and the folio sets it as verse. Or one splits verse lines in half (in order to use up more white space), or crams two half lines onto one line (in order to use less white space).

 

Subsequent editors will combine two lines or split up one line. They might decide that the line break should come in a different place. In most cases, editors are responding to the underlying metrical pattern and number of beats.

 

We can just use the <note> element to offer a narrative description of the changes (e.g., “Rowe breaks the line after garden”). We’ve also thought about using <app> to treat lineation alongside the collations. But it’s proving to be tricky to record the lemma and reading for relineation.

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who can provide examples or thoughts!

 

Best,

Janelle

 

 

From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James Cummings
Sent: July 24, 2017 12:30 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: collating relineations in TEI

 

Hi Janelle 

 

I think it depends what you mean by relineation. Does http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-retrace.html do what you want? 

 

James

--
Dr James Cummings, Academic IT Services, University of Oxford

 

 

On 24 Jul 2017 20:22, Janelle Jenstad <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear TEI colleagues,

 

I am trying to find a TEI method for recording editorial relineations of verse in Renaissance drama. Context: We are taking a corpus tagged in an idiosyncratic “SGMLvish” and converting everything to TEI. Some of the conversions are relatively simple; others are requiring a wholesale rethink of our editorial procedures.

 

Our predecessor project included relineations with other textual variants in a single collation file. We are using the double endpoint attachment method for collation.

 

I’d be very glad if someone would point us to some examples in any project. Or if we are not finding the right section of the guidelines, please point me to the right spot.

 

(I don’t normally post questions to this list because I have the great good fortune of working 10 feet away from Martin Holmes. But he is on holiday. Hoping the TEI hive can help out in his absence!)

 

With thanks,

Janelle

 

Janelle Jenstad, Executive Director and Coordinating Platform Editor, Internet Shakespeare Editions ([hidden email])

Associate Professor, Department of English, University of Victoria

Director, The Map of Early Modern London

Skype:  janelle.jenstad; Cell: +1 250-858-7269; Time zone: UTC -8

 

 

 

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Re: collating relineations in TEI

Lou Burnard-6

This was my first thought too. But I think the problem is that Janelle wants to mark up the different lineations using <l> tags, not <lb/>s: whence cometh all sorts of nasty overlapping hierarchies.


On 25/07/17 09:53, Matthew James Driscoll wrote:
Dear Janelle,

Isn't this what the @ed attribute on e.g. <lb> is for? According to the Guidelines it "supplies a sigil or other arbitrary identifier for the source edition in which the associated feature (for example, a page, column, or line break) occurs at this point in the text".

Best,

Matthew

________________________________
From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [[hidden email]] on behalf of Janelle Jenstad [[hidden email]]
Sent: 25 July 2017 00:53
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: collating relineations in TEI

Hi James,

It doesn’t seem to be what we’re after. The thing we’re trying to capture is changes in the way that the verse has been set in the early print witnesses and subsequently relineated by various editors.

The quarto and folio text might not be set in the same way. There are lots of cases in Shakespeare where the quarto text sets a passage as prose (say) and the folio sets it as verse. Or one splits verse lines in half (in order to use up more white space), or crams two half lines onto one line (in order to use less white space).

Subsequent editors will combine two lines or split up one line. They might decide that the line break should come in a different place. In most cases, editors are responding to the underlying metrical pattern and number of beats.

We can just use the <note> element to offer a narrative description of the changes (e.g., “Rowe breaks the line after garden”). We’ve also thought about using <app> to treat lineation alongside the collations. But it’s proving to be tricky to record the lemma and reading for relineation.

Thanks in advance to anyone who can provide examples or thoughts!

Best,
Janelle


From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James Cummings
Sent: July 24, 2017 12:30 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: collating relineations in TEI

Hi Janelle

I think it depends what you mean by relineation. Does http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-retrace.html do what you want?

James
--
Dr James Cummings, Academic IT Services, University of Oxford


On 24 Jul 2017 20:22, Janelle Jenstad <[hidden email][hidden email]> wrote:

Dear TEI colleagues,



I am trying to find a TEI method for recording editorial relineations of verse in Renaissance drama. Context: We are taking a corpus tagged in an idiosyncratic “SGMLvish” and converting everything to TEI. Some of the conversions are relatively simple; others are requiring a wholesale rethink of our editorial procedures.



Our predecessor project included relineations with other textual variants in a single collation file. We are using the double endpoint attachment method for collation.



I’d be very glad if someone would point us to some examples in any project. Or if we are not finding the right section of the guidelines, please point me to the right spot.



(I don’t normally post questions to this list because I have the great good fortune of working 10 feet away from Martin Holmes. But he is on holiday. Hoping the TEI hive can help out in his absence!)



With thanks,

Janelle



Janelle Jenstad, Executive Director and Coordinating Platform Editor, Internet Shakespeare Editions ([hidden email][hidden email])

Associate Professor, Department of English, University of Victoria

Director, The Map of Early Modern London

Skype:  janelle.jenstad; Cell: +1 250-858-7269; Time zone: UTC -8<http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/canada/victoria>







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Re: collating relineations in TEI

Martin Mueller

And the same thought had crossed my mind too. It gets confusing pretty fast, though, if more than two alternatives are in play.

 

From: "TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list" <[hidden email]> on behalf of Lou Burnard <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: Lou Burnard <[hidden email]>
Date: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 4:51 AM
To: "TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: collating relineations in TEI

 

This was my first thought too. But I think the problem is that Janelle wants to mark up the different lineations using <l> tags, not <lb/>s: whence cometh all sorts of nasty overlapping hierarchies.

 

On 25/07/17 09:53, Matthew James Driscoll wrote:

Dear Janelle,
 
Isn't this what the @ed attribute on e.g. <lb> is for? According to the Guidelines it "supplies a sigil or other arbitrary identifier for the source edition in which the associated feature (for example, a page, column, or line break) occurs at this point in the text".
 
Best,
 
Matthew
 
________________________________
From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [[hidden email]] on behalf of Janelle Jenstad [[hidden email]]
Sent: 25 July 2017 00:53
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: collating relineations in TEI
 
Hi James,
 
It doesn’t seem to be what we’re after. The thing we’re trying to capture is changes in the way that the verse has been set in the early print witnesses and subsequently relineated by various editors.
 
The quarto and folio text might not be set in the same way. There are lots of cases in Shakespeare where the quarto text sets a passage as prose (say) and the folio sets it as verse. Or one splits verse lines in half (in order to use up more white space), or crams two half lines onto one line (in order to use less white space).
 
Subsequent editors will combine two lines or split up one line. They might decide that the line break should come in a different place. In most cases, editors are responding to the underlying metrical pattern and number of beats.
 
We can just use the <note> element to offer a narrative description of the changes (e.g., “Rowe breaks the line after garden”). We’ve also thought about using <app> to treat lineation alongside the collations. But it’s proving to be tricky to record the lemma and reading for relineation.
 
Thanks in advance to anyone who can provide examples or thoughts!
 
Best,
Janelle
 
 
From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James Cummings
Sent: July 24, 2017 12:30 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: collating relineations in TEI
 
Hi Janelle
 
I think it depends what you mean by relineation. Does http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-retrace.html do what you want?
 
James
--
Dr James Cummings, Academic IT Services, University of Oxford
 
 
On 24 Jul 2017 20:22, Janelle Jenstad <[hidden email][hidden email]> wrote:
 
Dear TEI colleagues,
 
 
 
I am trying to find a TEI method for recording editorial relineations of verse in Renaissance drama. Context: We are taking a corpus tagged in an idiosyncratic “SGMLvish” and converting everything to TEI. Some of the conversions are relatively simple; others are requiring a wholesale rethink of our editorial procedures.
 
 
 
Our predecessor project included relineations with other textual variants in a single collation file. We are using the double endpoint attachment method for collation.
 
 
 
I’d be very glad if someone would point us to some examples in any project. Or if we are not finding the right section of the guidelines, please point me to the right spot.
 
 
 
(I don’t normally post questions to this list because I have the great good fortune of working 10 feet away from Martin Holmes. But he is on holiday. Hoping the TEI hive can help out in his absence!)
 
 
 
With thanks,
 
Janelle
 
 
 
Janelle Jenstad, Executive Director and Coordinating Platform Editor, Internet Shakespeare Editions ([hidden email][hidden email])
 
Associate Professor, Department of English, University of Victoria
 
Director, The Map of Early Modern London
 
Skype:  janelle.jenstad; Cell: +1 250-858-7269; Time zone: UTC -8<http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/canada/victoria>
 
 
 
 
 
 



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Re: collating relineations in TEI

Paul Schaffner
This all sounds like fun, reminiscent of the lineation notes in Wells'
old William Shakespeare: a textual companion. An additional complication
(which that book highlights) is that editors may well, faced with an
ambiguous line (is this a half-line of verse? or a short speech in
prose?)
so print the text as to preserve the ambiguity and refuse to commit
themselves one way or another. I.e., you will not only have 'line breaks
that represent new paragraphs' and 'line breaks that represent new
verse lines (or part-lines)' but also 'line breaks that may be one or
the other and I won't tell you which.' The only relatively clean way
I can think to code it with embedded markup is to eschew the advantages
of <p> and <l>, reduce everything within a speech to amorphous blobs
(<ab>), &
represent all line breaks as empty tags, whether with <lb/>, <anchor/>,
or <milestone/>, making use of @ana, @type, @subtype, @src, and (in the
case
of <lb/> @ed) to distinguish different sources of the lineation and
different
interpretations of same, perhaps stacking up the milestone elements
where
they agree. Messy, but at least feasible. pfs

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017, at 10:57, Martin Mueller wrote:

> And the same thought had crossed my mind too. It gets confusing pretty
> fast, though, if more than two alternatives are in play.
>
> From: "TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list"
> <[hidden email]> on behalf of Lou Burnard
> <[hidden email]>
> Reply-To: Lou Burnard <[hidden email]>
> Date: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 4:51 AM
> To: "TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list"
> <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: collating relineations in TEI
>
>
> This was my first thought too. But I think the problem is that Janelle
> wants to mark up the different lineations using <l> tags, not <lb/>s:
> whence cometh all sorts of nasty overlapping hierarchies.
>
> On 25/07/17 09:53, Matthew James Driscoll wrote:
>
> Dear Janelle,
>
>
>
> Isn't this what the @ed attribute on e.g. <lb> is for? According to the
> Guidelines it "supplies a sigil or other arbitrary identifier for the
> source edition in which the associated feature (for example, a page,
> column, or line break) occurs at this point in the text".
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Matthew
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list
> [[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>] on behalf of
> Janelle Jenstad [[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>]
>
> Sent: 25 July 2017 00:53
>
> To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
>
> Subject: Re: collating relineations in TEI
>
>
>
> Hi James,
>
>
>
> It doesn’t seem to be what we’re after. The thing we’re trying to capture
> is changes in the way that the verse has been set in the early print
> witnesses and subsequently relineated by various editors.
>
>
>
> The quarto and folio text might not be set in the same way. There are
> lots of cases in Shakespeare where the quarto text sets a passage as
> prose (say) and the folio sets it as verse. Or one splits verse lines in
> half (in order to use up more white space), or crams two half lines onto
> one line (in order to use less white space).
>
>
>
> Subsequent editors will combine two lines or split up one line. They
> might decide that the line break should come in a different place. In
> most cases, editors are responding to the underlying metrical pattern and
> number of beats.
>
>
>
> We can just use the <note> element to offer a narrative description of
> the changes (e.g., “Rowe breaks the line after garden”). We’ve also
> thought about using <app> to treat lineation alongside the collations.
> But it’s proving to be tricky to record the lemma and reading for
> relineation.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance to anyone who can provide examples or thoughts!
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Janelle
>
>
>
>
>
> From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James Cummings
>
> Sent: July 24, 2017 12:30 PM
>
> To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
>
> Subject: Re: collating relineations in TEI
>
>
>
> Hi Janelle
>
>
>
> I think it depends what you mean by relineation. Does
> http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-retrace.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.tei-2Dc.org_release_doc_tei-2Dp5-2Ddoc_en_html_ref-2Dretrace.html&d=DwMF-g&c=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r=rG8zxOdssqSzDRz4x1GLlmLOW60xyVXydxwnJZpkxbk&m=ENc8Otx9TFg_XSdoRgYcL04DsYlHxqdcjb2Zf8-6SBk&s=B_OiamhHdaEnc1R-NXJ1hxuSpWxIVDl472Vq0rilbE4&e=>
> do what you want?
>
>
>
> James
>
> --
>
> Dr James Cummings, Academic IT Services, University of Oxford
>
>
>
>
>
> On 24 Jul 2017 20:22, Janelle Jenstad
> <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]>>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear TEI colleagues,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I am trying to find a TEI method for recording editorial relineations of
> verse in Renaissance drama. Context: We are taking a corpus tagged in an
> idiosyncratic “SGMLvish” and converting everything to TEI. Some of the
> conversions are relatively simple; others are requiring a wholesale
> rethink of our editorial procedures.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Our predecessor project included relineations with other textual variants
> in a single collation file. We are using the double endpoint attachment
> method for collation.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I’d be very glad if someone would point us to some examples in any
> project. Or if we are not finding the right section of the guidelines,
> please point me to the right spot.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (I don’t normally post questions to this list because I have the great
> good fortune of working 10 feet away from Martin Holmes. But he is on
> holiday. Hoping the TEI hive can help out in his absence!)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> With thanks,
>
>
>
> Janelle
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Janelle Jenstad, Executive Director and Coordinating Platform Editor,
> Internet Shakespeare Editions
> ([hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]>)
>
>
>
> Associate Professor, Department of English, University of Victoria
>
>
>
> Director, The Map of Early Modern London
>
>
>
> Skype:  janelle.jenstad; Cell: +1 250-858-7269; Time zone: UTC
> -8<http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/canada/victoria><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.timeanddate.com_worldclock_canada_victoria&d=DwMF-g&c=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r=rG8zxOdssqSzDRz4x1GLlmLOW60xyVXydxwnJZpkxbk&m=ENc8Otx9TFg_XSdoRgYcL04DsYlHxqdcjb2Zf8-6SBk&s=UneMaXuqpfcyb7K37Ct5OA5aifWEu-wT7hmWgJuO5t0&e=>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--
Paul Schaffner  Digital Content & Collections
University of Michigan Libraries
[hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/
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Re: collating relineations in TEI

Syd Bauman-10
In reply to this post by Martin Mueller
<[hidden email]>
<[hidden email]>
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My instinct is that you would do best to de-couple <l> from
formatting, and use it *only* to say "this is a metrical line", not
to imply a line break. The downside is you would have to add <lb> in
lots of places you might otherwise not have used it:

      <lg type="poem">
        <lb/><l>Mooses come walking up over the hill</l>
        <lb/><l>Mooses come walking they rarely stand still.</l>
        <lb/><l>When Mooses come walking they walk where they will</l>
        <lb/><l>and mooses come walking up over the hill.</l>
        <lb/><l>Mooses look into your window at night,</l>        
        <lb/><l>They look to the left and they look to the right.</l>        
        <lb/><l>The mooses are smiling they think it’s a zoo</l>
        <lb/><l>And that’s why the mooses like looking at you.</l>        
        <lb/><l>So, if you see mooses while lying in bed</l>
        <lb/><l>It’s best just to lay there pretending you’re dead.</l>        
        <lb/><l>The mooses will leave and you’ll get the thrill</l>
        <lb/><l>Of seeing the mooses go over the hill.</l>
      </lg>

But then you can indicate different lineations with the standard TEI
method:

      <lg type="poem">
        <lb edRef="#JJ #LB #MD"/><l>Mooses come walking <lb edRef="#JJ"/>up over the hill</l>
        <lb edRef="#JJ #LB"    /><l>Mooses come walking <lb edRef="#JJ"/>they rarely stand still.</l>
        <lb edRef="#JJ #LB #MD"/><l>When Mooses come walking <lb edRef="#JJ"/>they walk where they will</l>
        <lb edRef="#JJ #LB"    /><l>and mooses come walking <lb edRef="#JJ"/>up over the hill.</l>
        <lb edRef="#JJ #LB #MD"/><l>Mooses look into <lb edRef="#JJ"/>your window at night,</l>        
        <lb edRef="#JJ #LB"    /><l>They look to the left <lb edRef="#JJ"/>and they look to the right.</l>        
        <lb edRef="#JJ #LB #MD"/><l>The mooses are smiling <lb edRef="#JJ"/>they think it’s a zoo</l>
        <lb edRef="#JJ #LB"    /><l>And that’s why the mooses <lb edRef="#JJ"/>like looking at you.</l>        
        <lb edRef="#JJ #LB #MD"/><l>So, if you see mooses <lb edRef="#JJ"/>while lying in bed</l>
        <lb edRef="#JJ #LB"    /><l>It’s best just to lay there <lb edRef="#JJ"/>pretending you’re dead.</l>        
        <lb edRef="#JJ #LB #MD"/><l>The mooses will leave <lb edRef="#JJ"/>and you’ll get the thrill</l>
        <lb edRef="#JJ #LB"    /><l>Of seeing the mooses <lb edRef="#JJ"/>go over the hill.</l>
      </lg>

Note
----
The #JJ breaks are what actually occur in the edition I transcribed
from, except they are *page breaks*, not line breaks. :-)

MM> And the same thought had crossed my mind too. It gets confusing
MM> pretty fast, though, if more than two alternatives are in play.

LB> This was my first thought too. But I think the problem is that
LB> Janelle wants to mark up the different lineations using <l> tags,
LB> not <lb/>s: whence cometh all sorts of nasty overlapping
LB> hierarchies.

MD> Isn't this what the @ed attribute on e.g. <lb> is for? According
MD> to the Guidelines it "supplies a sigil or other arbitrary
MD> identifier for the source edition in which the associated feature
MD> (for example, a page, column, or line break) occurs at this point
MD> in the text".

JJ> It doesn’t seem to be what we’re after. The thing we’re trying to
JJ> capture is changes in the way that the verse has been set in the
JJ> early print witnesses and subsequently relineated by various
JJ> editors.
JJ> The quarto and folio text might not be set in the same way. There
JJ> are lots of cases in Shakespeare where the quarto text sets a
JJ> passage as prose (say) and the folio sets it as verse. Or one
JJ> splits verse lines in half (in order to use up more white space),
JJ> or crams two half lines onto one line (in order to use less white
JJ> space).
JJ> Subsequent editors will combine two lines or split up one line.
JJ> They might decide that the line break should come in a different
JJ> place. In most cases, editors are responding to the underlying
JJ> metrical pattern and number of beats.
JJ> We can just use the <note> element to offer a narrative
JJ> description of the changes (e.g., “Rowe breaks the line after
JJ> garden”). We’ve also thought about using <app> to treat lineation
JJ> alongside the collations. But it’s proving to be tricky to record
JJ> the lemma and reading for relineation.
JJ> Thanks in advance to anyone who can provide examples or thoughts!
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Re: collating relineations in TEI

Janelle Jenstad
In reply to this post by Paul Schaffner
Hi All,
 
Thanks for weighing in! I didn’t give enough context. We're not doing embedded markup for the collations in ISE3. Our predecessor (ISE2) opted for standoff markup, which is a good choice for Shakespeare, given the number of witnesses and editions one must collate. The text would drown in a sea of collations. So we have a separate collation file that uses the <app> element for each variant.
 
Here's an example of a relineation in Henry V. In the 1623 folio, two short speeches are set on different lines (TLN 58 and TLN 59). The Cambridge edition suggests the lines are a “shared verse line.”
 
In the ISE3  text (which adopts the Cambridge lineation), the passage is encoded as follows:
<lb n="20"/>
               <lb type="tln" n="58"/>
               <sp who="#iseH5_FM_Ely">
                  <speaker>Ely</speaker>
                  <lg>
                     <l>This would drink deep.</l>
                  </lg>
               </sp>

               <lb n="20"/>
               <lb type="tln" n="59"/>
               <sp who="#iseH5_FM_Canterbury">
                  <speaker>Canterbury</speaker>
                  <lg>
                     <l>'Twould drink the cup and all.</l>
                  </lg>
               </sp>
 
Note that the lines are both n=”20” – ie, same line of verse.
 
The collation file has to give credit to Cambridge for the lineation, and also record the Folio’s reading since this edition takes the Folio as its base text. Here’s our programmatic pass at converting the apparatus file from IML to TEI. The content of the <lem> and <rdg> elements comes straight from the ISE2 IML encoding, which has always had an eye on rendering rather than telling the truth about the text.
 
<app from="tln:58" to="tln:59" n="20">
                         <lem source="wit:Cambridge">This would . . . and all.<note>shared line</note></lem>
                 <rdg wit="wit:F1">This would . . . deepe. / . . . and all.</rdg>
            </app>
As you can see, ISE2 editors used ellipses and slashes (typographical markup that has value in print, but in TEI suggests that the three spaced dots or the forward slash are part of the lemma). The editor has added a <note> and narrative content to tell us that it’s a “shared line”; we can retain the <note> and contents.
 
Our challenges is how to represent the lemma, the readings, and the line breaks.
  • Do we type out the line(s) in full? (Keep in mind that relineation is about where you put the break between two lines or if you split one line into two or if you merge two lines into one – so what’s being collated is the placement of a break. One has to give at least the preceding and subsequent word for the break to be meaningful.
  • How do we indicate the break? Do we use the <lb/> element within <lem> and <rdg> where ISE2 editors put a forward slash?
  • Can we replace editorial ellipses with a <gap/> element in the encoding? (We can render <gap/> with an ellipsis at processing time later.)
 
FWIW, on the ISE2 site, the passage is rendered as follows because the rendering puts a new speech prefix on a new line. So the collation and embedded note become extra important in that it offers information the rendering suppresses.
Ely
This would drink deep.
Canterbury
'Twould drink the cup and all.
 
Hope you TEI wizards will see a quick solution here!
 
Best,
Janelle
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Paul Schaffner
Sent: July 25, 2017 8:38 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: collating relineations in TEI
 
This all sounds like fun, reminiscent of the lineation notes in Wells'
old William Shakespeare: a textual companion. An additional complication (which that book highlights) is that editors may well, faced with an ambiguous line (is this a half-line of verse? or a short speech in
prose?)
so print the text as to preserve the ambiguity and refuse to commit themselves one way or another. I.e., you will not only have 'line breaks that represent new paragraphs' and 'line breaks that represent new verse lines (or part-lines)' but also 'line breaks that may be one or the other and I won't tell you which.' The only relatively clean way I can think to code it with embedded markup is to eschew the advantages of <p> and <l>, reduce everything within a speech to amorphous blobs (<ab>), & represent all line breaks as empty tags, whether with <lb/>, <anchor/>, or <milestone/>, making use of @ana, @type, @subtype, @src, and (in the case of <lb/> @ed) to distinguish different sources of the lineation and different interpretations of same, perhaps stacking up the milestone elements where they agree. Messy, but at least feasible. pfs
 
On Tue, Jul 25, 2017, at 10:57, Martin Mueller wrote:
> And the same thought had crossed my mind too. It gets confusing pretty
> fast, though, if more than two alternatives are in play.
>
> From: "TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list"
> <[hidden email]> on behalf of Lou Burnard
> Reply-To: Lou Burnard <[hidden email]>
> Date: Tuesday, July 25, 2017 at 4:51 AM
> To: "TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list"
> Subject: Re: collating relineations in TEI
>
>
> This was my first thought too. But I think the problem is that Janelle
> wants to mark up the different lineations using <l> tags, not <lb/>s:
> whence cometh all sorts of nasty overlapping hierarchies.
>
> On 25/07/17 09:53, Matthew James Driscoll wrote:
>
> Dear Janelle,
>
>
>
> Isn't this what the @ed attribute on e.g. <lb> is for? According to
> the Guidelines it "supplies a sigil or other arbitrary identifier for
> the source edition in which the associated feature (for example, a
> page, column, or line break) occurs at this point in the text".
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Matthew
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list
> of Janelle Jenstad [[hidden email]<[hidden email]>]
>
> Sent: 25 July 2017 00:53
>
>
> Subject: Re: collating relineations in TEI
>
>
>
> Hi James,
>
>
>
> It doesn’t seem to be what we’re after. The thing we’re trying to
> capture is changes in the way that the verse has been set in the early
> print witnesses and subsequently relineated by various editors.
>
>
>
> The quarto and folio text might not be set in the same way. There are
> lots of cases in Shakespeare where the quarto text sets a passage as
> prose (say) and the folio sets it as verse. Or one splits verse lines
> in half (in order to use up more white space), or crams two half lines
> onto one line (in order to use less white space).
>
>
>
> Subsequent editors will combine two lines or split up one line. They
> might decide that the line break should come in a different place. In
> most cases, editors are responding to the underlying metrical pattern
> and number of beats.
>
>
>
> We can just use the <note> element to offer a narrative description of
> the changes (e.g., “Rowe breaks the line after garden”). We’ve also
> thought about using <app> to treat lineation alongside the collations.
> But it’s proving to be tricky to record the lemma and reading for
> relineation.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance to anyone who can provide examples or thoughts!
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Janelle
>
>
>
>
>
> From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list
> [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of James Cummings
>
> Sent: July 24, 2017 12:30 PM
>
>
> Subject: Re: collating relineations in TEI
>
>
>
> Hi Janelle
>
>
>
> I think it depends what you mean by relineation. Does
> ttps://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.tei-2Dc.org_rel
> ease_doc_tei-2Dp5-2Ddoc_en_html_ref-2Dretrace.html&d=DwMF-g&c=yHlS04Hh
> Braes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r=rG8zxOdssqSzDRz4x1GLlmLOW60xyVXy
> dxwnJZpkxbk&m=ENc8Otx9TFg_XSdoRgYcL04DsYlHxqdcjb2Zf8-6SBk&s=B_OiamhHda
> Enc1R-NXJ1hxuSpWxIVDl472Vq0rilbE4&e=>
> do what you want?
>
>
>
> James
>
> --
>
> Dr James Cummings, Academic IT Services, University of Oxford
>
>
>
>
>
> On 24 Jul 2017 20:22, Janelle Jenstad
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear TEI colleagues,
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I am trying to find a TEI method for recording editorial relineations
> of verse in Renaissance drama. Context: We are taking a corpus tagged
> in an idiosyncratic “SGMLvish” and converting everything to TEI. Some
> of the conversions are relatively simple; others are requiring a
> wholesale rethink of our editorial procedures.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Our predecessor project included relineations with other textual
> variants in a single collation file. We are using the double endpoint
> attachment method for collation.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I’d be very glad if someone would point us to some examples in any
> project. Or if we are not finding the right section of the guidelines,
> please point me to the right spot.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> (I don’t normally post questions to this list because I have the great
> good fortune of working 10 feet away from Martin Holmes. But he is on
> holiday. Hoping the TEI hive can help out in his absence!)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> With thanks,
>
>
>
> Janelle
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Janelle Jenstad, Executive Director and Coordinating Platform Editor,
> Internet Shakespeare Editions
>
>
>
> Associate Professor, Department of English, University of Victoria
>
>
>
> Director, The Map of Early Modern London
>
>
>
> Skype:  janelle.jenstad; Cell: +1 250-858-7269; Time zone: UTC
> efense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.timeanddate.com_worldclock
> _canada_victoria&d=DwMF-g&c=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6w
> s&r=rG8zxOdssqSzDRz4x1GLlmLOW60xyVXydxwnJZpkxbk&m=ENc8Otx9TFg_XSdoRgYc
> L04DsYlHxqdcjb2Zf8-6SBk&s=UneMaXuqpfcyb7K37Ct5OA5aifWEu-wT7hmWgJuO5t0&
> e=>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
 
 
--
Paul Schaffner  Digital Content & Collections University of Michigan Libraries [hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/
 
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