listPerson: <person> - ref AND xml:ID ?!

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listPerson: <person> - ref AND xml:ID ?!

Stefanie Ertz

 

Dear TEI-List,

 

I would be more than grateful if anyone could give me advice how to combine xml:IDs and ref in the listPerson of my TEI-Header.

 

I could not find any example of such possibility in the current version of the guidelines.

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

Stefanie

 

 

 

 

Dr. Stefanie Ertz

Universität Paderborn

Center for the History of Women Philosophers & Scientists

Warburger Straße 100

33098 Paderborn

 

Email: [hidden email]

Website: https://historyofwomenphilosophers.org/

 

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Re: listPerson: <person> - ref AND xml:ID ?!

Lou Burnard-6
There are several examples at http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/examples-listPerson.html
They are all taken from spoken texts, but the same principles apply in other kinds of text

Sent from my Huawei Mobile

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: listPerson: - ref AND xml:ID ?!
From: Stefanie Ertz
To: [hidden email]
CC:

 

Dear TEI-List,

 

I would be more than grateful if anyone could give me advice how to combine xml:IDs and ref in the listPerson of my TEI-Header.

 

I could not find any example of such possibility in the current version of the guidelines.

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

Stefanie

 

 

 

 

Dr. Stefanie Ertz

Universität Paderborn

Center for the History of Women Philosophers & Scientists

Warburger Straße 100

33098 Paderborn

 

Email: [hidden email]

Website: https://historyofwomenphilosophers.org/

 

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PS: listPerson: <person> - ref AND xml:ID ?!

Stefanie Ertz
In reply to this post by Stefanie Ertz

To be more precise: I want to indicate, for all persons in the Header’s list, both an xml:ID and VIAF-numbers (as an external reference).

 

Von: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [mailto:[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Stefanie Ertz
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Mai 2018 10:20
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: listPerson: <person> - ref AND xml:ID ?!

 

 

Dear TEI-List,

 

I would be more than grateful if anyone could give me advice how to combine xml:IDs and ref in the listPerson of my TEI-Header.

 

I could not find any example of such possibility in the current version of the guidelines.

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

Stefanie

 

 

 

 

Dr. Stefanie Ertz

Universität Paderborn

Center for the History of Women Philosophers & Scientists

Warburger Straße 100

33098 Paderborn

 

Email: [hidden email]

Website: https://historyofwomenphilosophers.org/

 

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Re: PS: listPerson: <person> - ref AND xml:ID ?!

Laurent Romary
Dear Stefanie,
These are two different things: you can use <idno> in general to refer to any kind of external identifier from VIAF, GND, ORCID etc. 
The @xml:id information is a purely technical means to point to the corresponding description from somewhere else in your TEI document (or other documents).
Cheers,
Laurent



Le 30 mai 2018 à 10:31, Stefanie Ertz <[hidden email]> a écrit :

To be more precise: I want to indicate, for all persons in the Header’s list, both an xml:ID and VIAF-numbers (as an external reference).
 
Von: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Stefanie Ertz
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Mai 2018 10:20
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: listPerson: <person> - ref AND xml:ID ?!
 
 
Dear TEI-List,
 
I would be more than grateful if anyone could give me advice how to combine xml:IDs and ref in the listPerson of my TEI-Header.
 
I could not find any example of such possibility in the current version of the guidelines.
 
Many thanks in advance, 
 
Stefanie
 
 
 
 
Dr. Stefanie Ertz
Universität Paderborn
Center for the History of Women Philosophers & Scientists
Warburger Straße 100
33098 Paderborn
 

Laurent Romary
Inria, team ALMAnaCH






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Re: PS: listPerson: <person> - ref AND xml:ID ?!

williams
In reply to this post by Stefanie Ertz
Hi Stefanie,

For the Basnage project, what I do is to use an ISNI number in <idno> but for internal reference I use a truncated ISNI as it is easier for encoders to have access to the abbreviations used in the texte,. I do this as xml:id won’t let me have the ‘:’ for the full ISNI number.

I use ISNI because the ISNI team is highly reactive in updating oddities when I find them and in this late 17th c dictionary, variant spellings abound.

Best

Geoffrey

<person xml:id="Aba_ISN0000000083391828">
                        <persName xml:base="https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Abbadie">
                            <forename>Jacques</forename>
                            <surname>Abbadie</surname>
                            <roleName>Mr.</roleName>
                            <addName>Abadie</addName>
                            <abbr>abbrévié comme ab ou abs</abbr></persName>
                        <birth when="1654">né 1654 à <placeName>Nay</placeName></birth>
                        <death when="1727-09-25"> mort le 25 septembre 1727 à <placeName>Marylebone
                                (Royaume-Uni)</placeName></death>
                        <nationality>français, </nationality>
                        <faith>protestant</faith>
                        <education>eduqué aux académies de Puylaurens, de Saumur et de Sedan, </education>
                        <occupation>pasteur, </occupation>
                        <affiliation/>
                        <socecStatus/>
                        <note>théologien protestant français, </note>
                        <event when="1699">
                            <label>Dean of Killaloe and Clonfert</label>
                        </event>
                        <idno type="ISN">ISN:0000000083391828</idno>
                    </person>

Professor Geoffrey WILLIAMS. MSc, PhD 
President of the EvalHum Initiative 


Twitter @EvalHum / EvalHum on Facebook 



Le 30 mai 2018 à 10:31, Stefanie Ertz <[hidden email]> a écrit :

To be more precise: I want to indicate, for all persons in the Header’s list, both an xml:ID and VIAF-numbers (as an external reference).
 
Von: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Stefanie Ertz
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Mai 2018 10:20
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: listPerson: <person> - ref AND xml:ID ?!
 
 
Dear TEI-List,
 
I would be more than grateful if anyone could give me advice how to combine xml:IDs and ref in the listPerson of my TEI-Header.
 
I could not find any example of such possibility in the current version of the guidelines.
 
Many thanks in advance, 
 
Stefanie
 
 
 
 
Dr. Stefanie Ertz
Universität Paderborn
Center for the History of Women Philosophers & Scientists
Warburger Straße 100
33098 Paderborn
 

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Re: PS: listPerson: <person> - ref AND xml:ID ?!

Maarten Janssen
Depending on what you are using the listPerson for, if you have multiple TEI/XML files involving the same people (as is done in several corpora in TEITOK, starting with the Postscriptum corpus), it tends to be helpful to have the listPerson in an external file, to which you refer from each individual file - so you have a file listperson.xml with 

<listPerson>
<person xml:id=“person_00001”>
<!— all the info for person 1 —>
</person>
<person xml:id=“ person_00002”>
<!— all the info for person 2 —>
</person>
</listPerson>

And then within the teiHeader of each TEI/XML document (or elsewhere in the file) you refer to that external file:

<person ref=“listperson.xml#person_00001”/>

That way, you can keep extensive data about the person without having to copy it to each file, making it easier and more consistent to keep the peson data up-to-date, for instance if the <idno/> changes, you would have to update it only once. The xml:id is indeed just the technical linking part, and for internal reference, you can give the <person/> field in the file itself an id, making for a shorter and/or more meaningful ID to refer to within the document itself, say in interviews always using id=“INT” for the interviewer, which then indirectly refers to an entry in the listperson.xml. 

On 30 May 2018, at 10:50, [hidden email] <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Stefanie,

For the Basnage project, what I do is to use an ISNI number in <idno> but for internal reference I use a truncated ISNI as it is easier for encoders to have access to the abbreviations used in the texte,. I do this as xml:id won’t let me have the ‘:’ for the full ISNI number.

I use ISNI because the ISNI team is highly reactive in updating oddities when I find them and in this late 17th c dictionary, variant spellings abound.

Best

Geoffrey

<person xml:id="Aba_ISN0000000083391828">
                        <persName xml:base="https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Abbadie">
                            <forename>Jacques</forename>
                            <surname>Abbadie</surname>
                            <roleName>Mr.</roleName>
                            <addName>Abadie</addName>
                            <abbr>abbrévié comme ab ou abs</abbr></persName>
                        <birth when="1654">né 1654 à <placeName>Nay</placeName></birth>
                        <death when="1727-09-25"> mort le 25 septembre 1727 à <placeName>Marylebone
                                (Royaume-Uni)</placeName></death>
                        <nationality>français, </nationality>
                        <faith>protestant</faith>
                        <education>eduqué aux académies de Puylaurens, de Saumur et de Sedan, </education>
                        <occupation>pasteur, </occupation>
                        <affiliation/>
                        <socecStatus/>
                        <note>théologien protestant français, </note>
                        <event when="1699">
                            <label>Dean of Killaloe and Clonfert</label>
                        </event>
                        <idno type="ISN">ISN:0000000083391828</idno>
                    </person>

Professor Geoffrey WILLIAMS. MSc, PhD 
President of the EvalHum Initiative 


Twitter @EvalHum / EvalHum on Facebook 



Le 30 mai 2018 à 10:31, Stefanie Ertz <[hidden email]> a écrit :

To be more precise: I want to indicate, for all persons in the Header’s list, both an xml:ID and VIAF-numbers (as an external reference).
 
Von: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [[hidden email]] Im Auftrag von Stefanie Ertz
Gesendet: Mittwoch, 30. Mai 2018 10:20
An: [hidden email]
Betreff: listPerson: <person> - ref AND xml:ID ?!
 
 
Dear TEI-List,
 
I would be more than grateful if anyone could give me advice how to combine xml:IDs and ref in the listPerson of my TEI-Header.
 
I could not find any example of such possibility in the current version of the guidelines.
 
Many thanks in advance, 
 
Stefanie
 
 
 
 
Dr. Stefanie Ertz
Universität Paderborn
Center for the History of Women Philosophers & Scientists
Warburger Straße 100
33098 Paderborn
 


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Re: PS: listPerson: <person> - ref AND xml:ID ?!

Syd Bauman-9
Stefanie --

Short answer
----- ------
See http://www.wwp.northeastern.edu/outreach/seminars/_current/presentations/contextual_encoding/advanced_context_tutorial_00.xhtml
(Formatting is kinda poor, and really awful on the particular slide
you want, #2. Sorry.)

Long answer
---- ------
Sadly, TEI does not actually have a standard mechanism for saying
"here is information about a person that I want to provide; there is
more information available THERE". The mechanism suggested by Laurent
(using an <idno> inside a <person>) is a very good one.
| <person xml:id="pHan">
|   <persName>
|     <surname>Solo</surname>
|     <forename>Han</forename>
|   </persName>
|   <idno type="SWW">http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Han_Solo</idno>
|   <!-- ... -->
| </person>
It has several advantages: it allows multiple references to other
sources of information, and it allows each source to be categorized
using @type, and those categories can (and should) be defined in your
ODD.

Another mechanism (that is recommended in the tutorial link above) is
to use @ref on the first child <persName> of <person>. This has the
disadvantages of being slightly less standard, and of making it
difficult to refer to more than one external resource. (By
definition, if there is more than one URI in the value of @ref, it
indicates that "the name identifies several distinct entities"; so if
you want to point at more than one reference about the same entity
you end up doing something complex similar to what is exemplified on
page 9 of that tutorial.) The advantage, though, is that your XML
system will validate that the value of @ref is a URI.


Geoffrey Williams also shows use of <idno> in the same way Laurent
does, using what may be treated as either a fully-qualified name or
as a URL (using the <prefixDef> mechanism) as the content of
<idno>. I think this is great. There is one major problem in his
example, though: the use of @xml:base is simply wrong. @xml:base is
defined (by the W3C specification,[1] so TEI has nothing to say about
it) as indicating a base URI against which relative URIs should be
resolved. It has nothing to do with "look here for further
information". Thus the encoding exemplified means "if you find a
relative URL, resolve it according to the French wikipedia page on
Jacques Abbadie". E.g., in
| <person xml:id="pJH">
|   <persName type="informal" xml:base="http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jabba_Desilijic_Tiure">
|     <forename>Jabba</forename>
|     <nameLink>the</nameLink>
|     <surname><orgName ref="#oH">Hutt</orgName></surname>
|   </persName>
|   <!-- ... -->
| </person>
the <orgName> *does not* point to your internal orgography entry for
the Hutts, which has an @xml:id of "oH". Rather, it points to the
non-existent "oH" portion of the web page
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jabba_Desilijic_Tiure, which is not
what you want.

It is also worth noting that we do not use full ISNIs as the value of
@xml:id not because colon is not allowed, but because an @xml:id is a
way of being pointed at, not a way of pointing out.


Maarteen Janssen posts a very good idea: to keep the <listPerson>
separate from the encoded transcription. As pointed out, this is
particularly useful when you have multiple transcriptions but only
one set of people to discuss.

However, I think when '<person ref="listperson.xml#person_00001"/>'
is mentioned as being used from the header, '<persName
ref="listperson.xml#person_00001"/>' from the text is what is
intended (or something like '<persName ref="per:person_00001"/>', if
you take advantage of the <prefixDef> mechanism), as <person> does
not have a (@ref) attribute. (Personally, I think it should.)

Notes
-----
[1] https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlbase/
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Re: PS: listPerson: <person> - ref AND xml:ID ?!

williams
Thanks Syd. I stand corrected. What about this?

     <person xml:id="Aba_ISN0000000083391828">
                        <persName>
                            <forename>Jacques </forename>
                            <surname>Abbadie</surname>
                            <roleName>Mr.</roleName>
                            <addName>Abadie</addName>
                            <abbr>abbrévié comme ab ou abs</abbr></persName>
                        <birth when="1654">né 1654 à <placeName>Nay</placeName></birth>
                        <death when="1727-09-25"> mort le 25 septembre 1727 à <placeName>Marylebone
                                (Royaume-Uni)</placeName></death>
                        <nationality>Français, </nationality>
                        <faith>protestant</faith>
                        <education>Éduqué aux académies de Puylaurens, de Saumur et de Sedan, </education>
                        <occupation>pasteur, </occupation>
                        <affiliation/>
                        <socecStatus/>
                        <note>théologien protestant français, </note>
                        <event when="1699">
                            <label>Dean of Killaloe and Clonfert</label>
                        </event>
                        <idno type="ISN">ISN:0000000083391828</idno>
                        <idno type="URI">https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Abbadie</idno>
                    </person>


Le 30 mai 2018 à 17:21, Syd Bauman <[hidden email]> a écrit :

Stefanie --

Short answer
----- ------
See http://www.wwp.northeastern.edu/outreach/seminars/_current/presentations/contextual_encoding/advanced_context_tutorial_00.xhtml
(Formatting is kinda poor, and really awful on the particular slide
you want, #2. Sorry.)

Long answer
---- ------
Sadly, TEI does not actually have a standard mechanism for saying
"here is information about a person that I want to provide; there is
more information available THERE". The mechanism suggested by Laurent
(using an <idno> inside a <person>) is a very good one.
| <person xml:id="pHan">
|   <persName>
|     <surname>Solo</surname>
|     <forename>Han</forename>
|   </persName>
|   <idno type="SWW">http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Han_Solo</idno>
|   <!-- ... -->
| </person>
It has several advantages: it allows multiple references to other
sources of information, and it allows each source to be categorized
using @type, and those categories can (and should) be defined in your
ODD.

Another mechanism (that is recommended in the tutorial link above) is
to use @ref on the first child <persName> of <person>. This has the
disadvantages of being slightly less standard, and of making it
difficult to refer to more than one external resource. (By
definition, if there is more than one URI in the value of @ref, it
indicates that "the name identifies several distinct entities"; so if
you want to point at more than one reference about the same entity
you end up doing something complex similar to what is exemplified on
page 9 of that tutorial.) The advantage, though, is that your XML
system will validate that the value of @ref is a URI.


Geoffrey Williams also shows use of <idno> in the same way Laurent
does, using what may be treated as either a fully-qualified name or
as a URL (using the <prefixDef> mechanism) as the content of
<idno>. I think this is great. There is one major problem in his
example, though: the use of @xml:base is simply wrong. @xml:base is
defined (by the W3C specification,[1] so TEI has nothing to say about
it) as indicating a base URI against which relative URIs should be
resolved. It has nothing to do with "look here for further
information". Thus the encoding exemplified means "if you find a
relative URL, resolve it according to the French wikipedia page on
Jacques Abbadie". E.g., in
| <person xml:id="pJH">
|   <persName type="informal" xml:base="http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jabba_Desilijic_Tiure">
|     <forename>Jabba</forename>
|     <nameLink>the</nameLink>
|     <surname><orgName ref="#oH">Hutt</orgName></surname>
|   </persName>
|   <!-- ... -->
| </person>
the <orgName> *does not* point to your internal orgography entry for
the Hutts, which has an @xml:id of "oH". Rather, it points to the
non-existent "oH" portion of the web page
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jabba_Desilijic_Tiure, which is not
what you want.

It is also worth noting that we do not use full ISNIs as the value of
@xml:id not because colon is not allowed, but because an @xml:id is a
way of being pointed at, not a way of pointing out.


Maarteen Janssen posts a very good idea: to keep the <listPerson>
separate from the encoded transcription. As pointed out, this is
particularly useful when you have multiple transcriptions but only
one set of people to discuss.

However, I think when '<person ref="listperson.xml#person_00001"/>'
is mentioned as being used from the header, '<persName
ref="listperson.xml#person_00001"/>' from the text is what is
intended (or something like '<persName ref="per:person_00001"/>', if
you take advantage of the <prefixDef> mechanism), as <person> does
not have a (@ref) attribute. (Personally, I think it should.)

Notes
-----
[1] https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlbase/

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Re: PS: listPerson: <person> - ref AND xml:ID ?!

Syd Bauman-9
I would say it looks excellent to me, except that I don't speak
French (that is French, right?), and thus have no idea what "abbrévié
comme ab ou abs" is or why it is encoded as an abbreviation within <persName>.

But just looking at the tags, it looks excellent. (Damn my
Anglo-centric American public education :-)

If you wanted to use multiples, you could be more precise in the
@type and thus use
   <idno type="WP">https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Abbadie</idno>
   <idno type="BN_FR">http://catalogue.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/cb12111461c</idno>

Again, the problem here is that off-the-shelf TEI software will not
validate that the content of <idno> is in the format of a URI (let
alone that it points to an existing page, let alone that it points to
the right page).

You can redefine <idno> in your customization ODD, of course.
Here is an untested sample of how to do this:

|  <elementSpec ident="ident" module="tagdocs" mode="change">
|    <content>
|      <dataRef key="teidata.pointer"/>
|    </content>
|    <attList>
|      <attDef ident="type" mode="replace">
|        <datatype minOccurs="1" maxOccurs="1">
|          <dataRef key="teidata.enumerated"/>
|        </datatype>
|        <valList type="closed">
|          <valItem ident="WP">
|            <gloss>wikipedia</gloss>
|            <desc>A pointer to the main wikipedia page (French if
|            availalbe, English if not) about the entity being
|            encoded</desc>
|          </valItem>
|          <valItem ident="BnF">
|            <gloss xml:lang="fr">Bibliothèque nationale de France</gloss>
|            <desc>A pointer to the <ref
|            target="http://www.bnf.fr/fr/acc/x.accueil.html"
|            xml:lang="fr">Bibliothèque nationale de France</ref> entry
|            for the entity being encoded.</desc>
|          </valItem>
|        </valList>
|      </attDef>
|    </attList>
|  </elementSpec>

You could further add a <constraintSpec> to check that the URI points
to something.


> Thanks Syd. I stand corrected. What about this?
>
>      <person xml:id="Aba_ISN0000000083391828">
>                         <persName>
>                             <forename>Jacques </forename>
>                             <surname>Abbadie</surname>
>                             <roleName>Mr.</roleName>
>                             <addName>Abadie</addName>
>                             <abbr>abbrévié comme ab ou abs</abbr></persName>
>                         <birth when="1654">né 1654 à <placeName>Nay</placeName></birth>
>                         <death when="1727-09-25"> mort le 25 septembre 1727 à <placeName>Marylebone
>                                 (Royaume-Uni)</placeName></death>
>                         <nationality>Français, </nationality>
>                         <faith>protestant</faith>
>                         <education>Éduqué aux académies de Puylaurens, de Saumur et de Sedan, </education>
>                         <occupation>pasteur, </occupation>
>                         <affiliation/>
>                         <socecStatus/>
>                         <note>théologien protestant français, </note>
>                         <event when="1699">
>                             <label>Dean of Killaloe and Clonfert</label>
>                         </event>
>                         <idno type="ISN">ISN:0000000083391828</idno>
>                         <idno type="URI">https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Abbadie</idno>
>                     </person>
MLH
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Re: PS: listPerson: <person> - ref AND xml:ID ?!

MLH
In reply to this post by Stefanie Ertz
Another approach to providing references to external sources and authorities is to put them in a specified `<note>` inside a `<list>`. This is the approach used by the Map of Early Modern London project (you can see their personography here: https://mapoflondon.uvic.ca/xml/original/historical_personography.xml), and which we've adopted for the Bodleian manuscripts catalogue personography (not documented properly yet, but available here: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/bodleian/medieval-mss/master/persons.xml).
The basic structure is:
`<person> ....
<note>
<list type="links">
<item>
<ref target="http://www.british-history.ac.uk/london-letter-books/voll/pp276-285"><title level="m">BHO</title>
</ref>
</item>
</list>
</note>
..
</person>`

Matthew
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Re: PS: listPerson: <person> - ref AND xml:ID ?!

Kevin Hawkins
In reply to this post by Stefanie Ertz

I recommend replacing:

<idno type="ISN">ISN:0000000083391828</idno>

with this:

<idno type="ISN">http://isni.org/isni/0000000083391828</idno>

which follows the URI syntax prescribed at http://www.isni.org/how-isni-works .

--Kevin

On 5/30/18 10:58 AM, [hidden email] wrote:
Thanks Syd. I stand corrected. What about this?

     <person xml:id="Aba_ISN0000000083391828">
                        <persName>
                            <forename>Jacques </forename>
                            <surname>Abbadie</surname>
                            <roleName>Mr.</roleName>
                            <addName>Abadie</addName>
                            <abbr>abbrévié comme ab ou abs</abbr></persName>
                        <birth when="1654">né 1654 à <placeName>Nay</placeName></birth>
                        <death when="1727-09-25"> mort le 25 septembre 1727 à <placeName>Marylebone
                                (Royaume-Uni)</placeName></death>
                        <nationality>Français, </nationality>
                        <faith>protestant</faith>
                        <education>Éduqué aux académies de Puylaurens, de Saumur et de Sedan, </education>
                        <occupation>pasteur, </occupation>
                        <affiliation/>
                        <socecStatus/>
                        <note>théologien protestant français, </note>
                        <event when="1699">
                            <label>Dean of Killaloe and Clonfert</label>
                        </event>
                        <idno type="ISN">ISN:0000000083391828</idno>
                        <idno type="URI">https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Abbadie</idno>
                    </person>


Le 30 mai 2018 à 17:21, Syd Bauman <[hidden email]> a écrit :

Stefanie --

Short answer
----- ------
See http://www.wwp.northeastern.edu/outreach/seminars/_current/presentations/contextual_encoding/advanced_context_tutorial_00.xhtml
(Formatting is kinda poor, and really awful on the particular slide
you want, #2. Sorry.)

Long answer
---- ------
Sadly, TEI does not actually have a standard mechanism for saying
"here is information about a person that I want to provide; there is
more information available THERE". The mechanism suggested by Laurent
(using an <idno> inside a <person>) is a very good one.
| <person xml:id="pHan">
|   <persName>
|     <surname>Solo</surname>
|     <forename>Han</forename>
|   </persName>
|   <idno type="SWW">http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Han_Solo</idno>
|   <!-- ... -->
| </person>
It has several advantages: it allows multiple references to other
sources of information, and it allows each source to be categorized
using @type, and those categories can (and should) be defined in your
ODD.

Another mechanism (that is recommended in the tutorial link above) is
to use @ref on the first child <persName> of <person>. This has the
disadvantages of being slightly less standard, and of making it
difficult to refer to more than one external resource. (By
definition, if there is more than one URI in the value of @ref, it
indicates that "the name identifies several distinct entities"; so if
you want to point at more than one reference about the same entity
you end up doing something complex similar to what is exemplified on
page 9 of that tutorial.) The advantage, though, is that your XML
system will validate that the value of @ref is a URI.


Geoffrey Williams also shows use of <idno> in the same way Laurent
does, using what may be treated as either a fully-qualified name or
as a URL (using the <prefixDef> mechanism) as the content of
<idno>. I think this is great. There is one major problem in his
example, though: the use of @xml:base is simply wrong. @xml:base is
defined (by the W3C specification,[1] so TEI has nothing to say about
it) as indicating a base URI against which relative URIs should be
resolved. It has nothing to do with "look here for further
information". Thus the encoding exemplified means "if you find a
relative URL, resolve it according to the French wikipedia page on
Jacques Abbadie". E.g., in
| <person xml:id="pJH">
|   <persName type="informal" xml:base="http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jabba_Desilijic_Tiure">
|     <forename>Jabba</forename>
|     <nameLink>the</nameLink>
|     <surname><orgName ref="#oH">Hutt</orgName></surname>
|   </persName>
|   <!-- ... -->
| </person>
the <orgName> *does not* point to your internal orgography entry for
the Hutts, which has an @xml:id of "oH". Rather, it points to the
non-existent "oH" portion of the web page
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jabba_Desilijic_Tiure, which is not
what you want.

It is also worth noting that we do not use full ISNIs as the value of
@xml:id not because colon is not allowed, but because an @xml:id is a
way of being pointed at, not a way of pointing out.


Maarteen Janssen posts a very good idea: to keep the <listPerson>
separate from the encoded transcription. As pointed out, this is
particularly useful when you have multiple transcriptions but only
one set of people to discuss.

However, I think when '<person ref="listperson.xml#person_00001"/>'
is mentioned as being used from the header, '<persName
ref="listperson.xml#person_00001"/>' from the text is what is
intended (or something like '<persName ref="per:person_00001"/>', if
you take advantage of the <prefixDef> mechanism), as <person> does
not have a (@ref) attribute. (Personally, I think it should.)

Notes
-----
[1] https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlbase/


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Re: PS: listPerson: <person> - ref AND xml:ID ?!

Syd Bauman-9
I'm of two minds about this. The problem is that the content of
<idno> is *not* defined as a URI. Thus, the "normal" way I would
suggest this be done:
   <prefixDef ident="isn" matchPattern="(.*)" replacementPattern="http://isni.org/isni/$1"/>
   <!-- ... -->
   <idno type="ISN">isn:0000000083391828</idno>
is a bit weird, because <prefixDef> is for URIs, not textual
content. But here the content of <idno> does happen to be a URI.

But it's not as though there is some generic TEI software you can
install which will process <prefixDef> for all your URIs which would
fail to work on an <idno>. (Not because it would not fail to work on
an <idno>, but because there is no such software. If I were to write
it someday, in which case I would probably provide a switch for
processing <idno>s or not.)

So in truth, Kevin's suggestion is probably safer.
Sigh.

P.S. Note that the prefix ("isn:") has to be lower case. (I forget
     which RFC recommends lower case, but <prefixDef> requires it.)

> I recommend replacing:
> <idnotype="ISN">ISN:0000000083391828</idno>
> with this:
> <idnotype="ISN">http://isni.org/isni/0000000083391828</idno>
> which follows the URI syntax prescribed at
> http://www.isni.org/how-isni-works .
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Re: PS: listPerson: <person> - ref AND xml:ID ?!

Martin Holmes
In reply to this post by MLH
Hi all,

There's some simple documentation for the Map of London person encoding
here:

<https://mapoflondon.uvic.ca/website_structure.htm#website_structure_persons>

Cheers,
Martin

On 2018-05-31 12:08 AM, MLH wrote:

> Another approach to providing references to external sources and
> authorities is to put them in a specified `<note>` inside a `<list>`.
> This is the approach used by the Map of Early Modern London project (you
> can see their personography here:
> https://mapoflondon.uvic.ca/xml/original/historical_personography.xml),
> and which we've adopted for the Bodleian manuscripts catalogue
> personography (not documented properly yet, but available here:
> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/bodleian/medieval-mss/master/persons.xml).
>
> The basic structure is:
> `<person> ....
> <note>
> <list type="links">
> <item>
> <ref
> target="http://www.british-history.ac.uk/london-letter-books/voll/pp276-285"><title
> level="m">BHO</title>
> </ref>
> </item>
> </list>
> </note>
> ..
> </person>`
>
> Matthew
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Re: PS: listPerson: <person> - ref AND xml:ID ?!

Martin Holmes
In reply to this post by Syd Bauman-9
You could use @corresp on <idno> for the private uri scheme version.

I wonder if <idno> should be a member of att.canonical?

Cheers,
Martin

On 2018-05-31 07:06 AM, Syd Bauman wrote:

> I'm of two minds about this. The problem is that the content of
> <idno> is *not* defined as a URI. Thus, the "normal" way I would
> suggest this be done:
>     <prefixDef ident="isn" matchPattern="(.*)" replacementPattern="http://isni.org/isni/$1"/>
>     <!-- ... -->
>     <idno type="ISN">isn:0000000083391828</idno>
> is a bit weird, because <prefixDef> is for URIs, not textual
> content. But here the content of <idno> does happen to be a URI.
>
> But it's not as though there is some generic TEI software you can
> install which will process <prefixDef> for all your URIs which would
> fail to work on an <idno>. (Not because it would not fail to work on
> an <idno>, but because there is no such software. If I were to write
> it someday, in which case I would probably provide a switch for
> processing <idno>s or not.)
>
> So in truth, Kevin's suggestion is probably safer.
> Sigh.
>
> P.S. Note that the prefix ("isn:") has to be lower case. (I forget
>       which RFC recommends lower case, but <prefixDef> requires it.)
>
>> I recommend replacing:
>> <idnotype="ISN">ISN:0000000083391828</idno>
>> with this:
>> <idnotype="ISN">http://isni.org/isni/0000000083391828</idno>
>> which follows the URI syntax prescribed at
>> http://www.isni.org/how-isni-works .