<div> or <seg>?

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<div> or <seg>?

Rosanna Cantavella
Dear all,

I'm marking up a series of medieval troubadour poetry handbooks, in
order to localize and classify all different definitions and types of
rhyme according to this cultural tradition. I am not transcribing
directly from the manuscripts (often preserved in numerous witnesses),
but from their modern editions; and not marking these works in their
entirety, but only those parts in which definitions of rhyme are given
in each text.

I'm using <div> to enclose each fragment of text in which these
definitions appear inside a given work. These fragments are in some
cases as short as a paragraph, and in others as long as a chapter would
be in a modern work. I usually have no more than two or three divs for
each work: <div n= “1”>, <div n= “2”> etc.

Now my question: within each <div> I usually find definitions of several
types of rhyme, which I'll duly mark up individually with @ana
attributes (thanks again, Lou!). But what element would you recommend
for these arbitrary (that is, created by me and not by the author)
chunks of text inside each <div>?

a) Again <div>? (But how should I differentiate the enclosing divs from
these 'sub-divs'?)

b) Switch to <seg>? (But I've only seen very short <seg> examples. I
have to enclose sometimes several paragraphs in one definition. Can
<seg> enclose whole paragraphs? And would <seg ana= “#A1”>, <seg ana=
“#C3”> etc. be a correct markup?)

Hypothetical example:

<div n= “1”> Bla bla bla … bla bla
<seg ana= “#C3”><p>DELS RIMS UTRISSONANS. Rim utrissonan son dig can la
vocals muda lo significat de la dictio. mudan lo so plenissonan. en so.
semissonan. o pel contrari. segon. quom pot ayssi vezer.
<lg>
<l>Sias tempratz e gent apres. </l>
<l>En tas paraulas et apres. </l>
<l>Si fas de compas e de pes. </l>
<l>Sas obras remandran enpes.</l>
</lg>
</p></seg>
<p>Bla bla bla...</p></div>

As you can see, not every line of text inside every div refers to
definitions, and therefore not every line or paragraph would be enclosed
by <seg> or by these 'sub-divs'.

Thank you in advance,


Rosanna

Prof. Rosanna Cantavella
Universitat de València / Clare Hall, University of Cambridge
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Re: <div> or <seg>?

Gabriel BODARD
Dear Rosanna,

If your "arbitrary sections" have to include paragraphs, line-groups,
and other block-level elements, then I think you have to use `<div>`s,
not segs. Distinguishing them from top level divs could be as simple as
just the fact that top level divs won't have a parent that is a div, or,
if you prefer, using a `@type` attribute. `<div type="fragment">` vs.
`<div type="rhyme">` or similar. I presume the `@ana` on the child divs
would refer to everything inside of them?

(The only constraint here is that `<div>`s need to tessellate in TEI, so
in other words if *anything* is in a div, everything parallel to it must
also be in a div. If you have text that is not in verse, and thus don't
want to mark with `@ana`, it will have to go in a div anyway—but I
suppose you could just not give it either `@ana` or `@type` and so
ignore it...)

Hope this helps,

Gabby


On 2015-05-19 18:17, Rosanna Cantavella wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I'm marking up a series of medieval troubadour poetry handbooks, in
> order to localize and classify all different definitions and types of
> rhyme according to this cultural tradition. I am not transcribing
> directly from the manuscripts (often preserved in numerous witnesses),
> but from their modern editions; and not marking these works in their
> entirety, but only those parts in which definitions of rhyme are given
> in each text.
>
> I'm using <div> to enclose each fragment of text in which these
> definitions appear inside a given work. These fragments are in some
> cases as short as a paragraph, and in others as long as a chapter would
> be in a modern work. I usually have no more than two or three divs for
> each work: <div n= “1”>, <div n= “2”> etc.
>
> Now my question: within each <div> I usually find definitions of several
> types of rhyme, which I'll duly mark up individually with @ana
> attributes (thanks again, Lou!). But what element would you recommend
> for these arbitrary (that is, created by me and not by the author)
> chunks of text inside each <div>?
>
> a) Again <div>? (But how should I differentiate the enclosing divs from
> these 'sub-divs'?)
>
> b) Switch to <seg>? (But I've only seen very short <seg> examples. I
> have to enclose sometimes several paragraphs in one definition. Can
> <seg> enclose whole paragraphs? And would <seg ana= “#A1”>, <seg ana=
> “#C3”> etc. be a correct markup?)
>
> Hypothetical example:
>
> <div n= “1”> Bla bla bla … bla bla
> <seg ana= “#C3”><p>DELS RIMS UTRISSONANS. Rim utrissonan son dig can la
> vocals muda lo significat de la dictio. mudan lo so plenissonan. en so.
> semissonan. o pel contrari. segon. quom pot ayssi vezer.
> <lg>
> <l>Sias tempratz e gent apres. </l>
> <l>En tas paraulas et apres. </l>
> <l>Si fas de compas e de pes. </l>
> <l>Sas obras remandran enpes.</l>
> </lg>
> </p></seg>
> <p>Bla bla bla...</p></div>
>
> As you can see, not every line of text inside every div refers to
> definitions, and therefore not every line or paragraph would be enclosed
> by <seg> or by these 'sub-divs'.
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
>
> Rosanna
>
> Prof. Rosanna Cantavella
> Universitat de València / Clare Hall, University of Cambridge
>

--
Dr Gabriel BODARD
Researcher in Digital Epigraphy

Digital Humanities
King's College London
Boris Karloff Building
26-29 Drury Lane
London WC2B 5RL

T: +44 (0)20 7848 1388
E: [hidden email]

http://www.digitalclassicist.org/
http://www.currentepigraphy.org/
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Re: <div> or <seg>?

Paul Schaffner
In reply to this post by Rosanna Cantavella
I'm probably missing something (I usually am), but assuming that
you wish to use a container-element of some kind (i.e., you do
not wish to use 'milestone' type elements), then

 -- <div> is not easy because the definition divs would not
     'tessellate' (you would have to create artificial 'non-definition'
     divs between them);
 -- <seg> is not possible because <seg> cannot contain paragraphs.
 -- <ab> is not possible, ditto.

I think that leaves <floatingText> and <q> as options. Or else
reconsider the strategy.

So what have I missed?

pfs

On Tue, May 19, 2015, at 13:17, Rosanna Cantavella wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I'm marking up a series of medieval troubadour poetry handbooks, in
> order to localize and classify all different definitions and types of
> rhyme according to this cultural tradition. I am not transcribing
> directly from the manuscripts (often preserved in numerous witnesses),
> but from their modern editions; and not marking these works in their
> entirety, but only those parts in which definitions of rhyme are given
> in each text.
>
> I'm using <div> to enclose each fragment of text in which these
> definitions appear inside a given work. These fragments are in some
> cases as short as a paragraph, and in others as long as a chapter would
> be in a modern work. I usually have no more than two or three divs for
> each work: <div n= “1”>, <div n= “2”> etc.
>
> Now my question: within each <div> I usually find definitions of several
> types of rhyme, which I'll duly mark up individually with @ana
> attributes (thanks again, Lou!). But what element would you recommend
> for these arbitrary (that is, created by me and not by the author)
> chunks of text inside each <div>?
>
> a) Again <div>? (But how should I differentiate the enclosing divs from
> these 'sub-divs'?)
>
> b) Switch to <seg>? (But I've only seen very short <seg> examples. I
> have to enclose sometimes several paragraphs in one definition. Can
> <seg> enclose whole paragraphs? And would <seg ana= “#A1”>, <seg ana=
> “#C3”> etc. be a correct markup?)
>
> Hypothetical example:
>
> <div n= “1”> Bla bla bla … bla bla
> <seg ana= “#C3”><p>DELS RIMS UTRISSONANS. Rim utrissonan son dig can la
> vocals muda lo significat de la dictio. mudan lo so plenissonan. en so.
> semissonan. o pel contrari. segon. quom pot ayssi vezer.
> <lg>
> <l>Sias tempratz e gent apres. </l>
> <l>En tas paraulas et apres. </l>
> <l>Si fas de compas e de pes. </l>
> <l>Sas obras remandran enpes.</l>
> </lg>
> </p></seg>
> <p>Bla bla bla...</p></div>
>
> As you can see, not every line of text inside every div refers to
> definitions, and therefore not every line or paragraph would be enclosed
> by <seg> or by these 'sub-divs'.
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
>
> Rosanna
>
> Prof. Rosanna Cantavella
> Universitat de València / Clare Hall, University of Cambridge
--
Paul Schaffner  Digital Library Production Service
[hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/
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Re: <div> or <seg>?

Sebastian Rahtz-3
In reply to this post by Rosanna Cantavella
I think your example rules out both <seg> (encloses paragraphs) and <div>
(you have loose <p>Bla bla bla...</p>). I rather fear you are in for
standoff markup.

Sebastian Rahtz
Chief Data Architect, IT Services
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Re: <div> or <seg>?

Peter Boot-3
In reply to this post by Rosanna Cantavella
Could you explain why you need the surrounding element at all? In the example that you give, the seg just surrounds a single p. Couldn't you have the ana-attribute on the p element and not have a seg at all?  

> -----Original Message-----
> From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [mailto:TEI-
> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Rosanna Cantavella
> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 7:18 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [TEI-L] <div> or <seg>?
>
> Dear all,
>
> I'm marking up a series of medieval troubadour poetry handbooks, in order
> to localize and classify all different definitions and types of rhyme according
> to this cultural tradition. I am not transcribing directly from the manuscripts
> (often preserved in numerous witnesses), but from their modern editions;
> and not marking these works in their entirety, but only those parts in which
> definitions of rhyme are given in each text.
>
> I'm using <div> to enclose each fragment of text in which these definitions
> appear inside a given work. These fragments are in some cases as short as a
> paragraph, and in others as long as a chapter would be in a modern work. I
> usually have no more than two or three divs for each work: <div n= “1”>, <div
> n= “2”> etc.
>
> Now my question: within each <div> I usually find definitions of several types
> of rhyme, which I'll duly mark up individually with @ana attributes (thanks
> again, Lou!). But what element would you recommend for these arbitrary
> (that is, created by me and not by the author) chunks of text inside each
> <div>?
>
> a) Again <div>? (But how should I differentiate the enclosing divs from these
> 'sub-divs'?)
>
> b) Switch to <seg>? (But I've only seen very short <seg> examples. I have to
> enclose sometimes several paragraphs in one definition. Can <seg> enclose
> whole paragraphs? And would <seg ana= “#A1”>, <seg ana= “#C3”> etc. be a
> correct markup?)
>
> Hypothetical example:
>
> <div n= “1”> Bla bla bla … bla bla
> <seg ana= “#C3”><p>DELS RIMS UTRISSONANS. Rim utrissonan son dig can la
> vocals muda lo significat de la dictio. mudan lo so plenissonan. en so.
> semissonan. o pel contrari. segon. quom pot ayssi vezer.
> <lg>
> <l>Sias tempratz e gent apres. </l>
> <l>En tas paraulas et apres. </l>
> <l>Si fas de compas e de pes. </l>
> <l>Sas obras remandran enpes.</l>
> </lg>
> </p></seg>
> <p>Bla bla bla...</p></div>
>
> As you can see, not every line of text inside every div refers to definitions,
> and therefore not every line or paragraph would be enclosed by <seg> or by
> these 'sub-divs'.
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
>
> Rosanna
>
> Prof. Rosanna Cantavella
> Universitat de València / Clare Hall, University of Cambridge
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Re: <div> or <seg>?

Fabio Ciotti-3
In reply to this post by Rosanna Cantavella
There is no sound rule to say when and why a certain block of text could be a <div> or not, an in the wild you can find many different uses. 
So in this case you could go with <div> using @type and @sub-type and @resp atts to qualify them, or use the <ab> element if the blocks are more paragraph like things.
Surely I would exclude <seg> that is for phrase level segments of texts

f

2015-05-19 19:17 GMT+02:00 Rosanna Cantavella <[hidden email]>:
Dear all,

I'm marking up a series of medieval troubadour poetry handbooks, in
order to localize and classify all different definitions and types of
rhyme according to this cultural tradition. I am not transcribing
directly from the manuscripts (often preserved in numerous witnesses),
but from their modern editions; and not marking these works in their
entirety, but only those parts in which definitions of rhyme are given
in each text.

I'm using <div> to enclose each fragment of text in which these
definitions appear inside a given work. These fragments are in some
cases as short as a paragraph, and in others as long as a chapter would
be in a modern work. I usually have no more than two or three divs for
each work: <div n= “1”>, <div n= “2”> etc.

Now my question: within each <div> I usually find definitions of several
types of rhyme, which I'll duly mark up individually with @ana
attributes (thanks again, Lou!). But what element would you recommend
for these arbitrary (that is, created by me and not by the author)
chunks of text inside each <div>?

a) Again <div>? (But how should I differentiate the enclosing divs from
these 'sub-divs'?)

b) Switch to <seg>? (But I've only seen very short <seg> examples. I
have to enclose sometimes several paragraphs in one definition. Can
<seg> enclose whole paragraphs? And would <seg ana= “#A1”>, <seg ana=
“#C3”> etc. be a correct markup?)

Hypothetical example:

<div n= “1”> Bla bla bla … bla bla
<seg ana= “#C3”><p>DELS RIMS UTRISSONANS. Rim utrissonan son dig can la
vocals muda lo significat de la dictio. mudan lo so plenissonan. en so.
semissonan. o pel contrari. segon. quom pot ayssi vezer.
<lg>
<l>Sias tempratz e gent apres. </l>
<l>En tas paraulas et apres. </l>
<l>Si fas de compas e de pes. </l>
<l>Sas obras remandran enpes.</l>
</lg>
</p></seg>
<p>Bla bla bla...</p></div>

As you can see, not every line of text inside every div refers to
definitions, and therefore not every line or paragraph would be enclosed
by <seg> or by these 'sub-divs'.

Thank you in advance,


Rosanna

Prof. Rosanna Cantavella
Universitat de València / Clare Hall, University of Cambridge



--
Fabio Ciotti
Dipartimento Studi Umanistici, Università di Roma Tor Vergata
Presidente Associazione Informatica Umanistica Cultura Digitale
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Re: <div> or <seg>?

Lou Burnard-6
In reply to this post by Peter Boot-3
I would use <quote> for  these things. That is, after all, what they are. Floating text is a possibility but not really honest since there's no surroundjng text for them to float in. 




Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab®|PRO


-------- Original message --------
From: Peter Boot
Date:05/19/2015 18:48 (GMT+00:00)
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re:
or ?

Could you explain why you need the surrounding element at all? In the example that you give, the seg just surrounds a single p. Couldn't you have the ana-attribute on the p element and not have a seg at all? 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [mailto:TEI-
> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Rosanna Cantavella
> Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 7:18 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [TEI-L] <div> or <seg>?
>
> Dear all,
>
> I'm marking up a series of medieval troubadour poetry handbooks, in order
> to localize and classify all different definitions and types of rhyme according
> to this cultural tradition. I am not transcribing directly from the manuscripts
> (often preserved in numerous witnesses), but from their modern editions;
> and not marking these works in their entirety, but only those parts in which
> definitions of rhyme are given in each text.
>
> I'm using <div> to enclose each fragment of text in which these definitions
> appear inside a given work. These fragments are in some cases as short as a
> paragraph, and in others as long as a chapter would be in a modern work. I
> usually have no more than two or three divs for each work: <div n= “1”>, <div
> n= “2”> etc.
>
> Now my question: within each <div> I usually find definitions of several types
> of rhyme, which I'll duly mark up individually with @ana attributes (thanks
> again, Lou!). But what element would you recommend for these arbitrary
> (that is, created by me and not by the author) chunks of text inside each
> <div>?
>
> a) Again <div>? (But how should I differentiate the enclosing divs from these
> 'sub-divs'?)
>
> b) Switch to <seg>? (But I've only seen very short <seg> examples. I have to
> enclose sometimes several paragraphs in one definition. Can <seg> enclose
> whole paragraphs? And would <seg ana= “#A1”>, <seg ana= “#C3”> etc. be a
> correct markup?)
>
> Hypothetical example:
>
> <div n= “1”> Bla bla bla … bla bla
> <seg ana= “#C3”><p>DELS RIMS UTRISSONANS. Rim utrissonan son dig can la
> vocals muda lo significat de la dictio. mudan lo so plenissonan. en so.
> semissonan. o pel contrari. segon. quom pot ayssi vezer.
> <lg>
> <l>Sias tempratz e gent apres. </l>
> <l>En tas paraulas et apres. </l>
> <l>Si fas de compas e de pes. </l>
> <l>Sas obras remandran enpes.</l>
> </lg>
> </p></seg>
> <p>Bla bla bla...</p></div>
>
> As you can see, not every line of text inside every div refers to definitions,
> and therefore not every line or paragraph would be enclosed by <seg> or by
> these 'sub-divs'.
>
> Thank you in advance,
>
>
> Rosanna
>
> Prof. Rosanna Cantavella
> Universitat de València / Clare Hall, University of Cambridge
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Re: <div> or <seg>?

Paul Schaffner
Yes sorry, I said <q> but in my head <q> is always shorthand for
(q|quote) or perhaps (q|quote|said).

And Fabio, the problem with using <div> in this case is
not the semantics of <div> (which are fine), but the
fact that the <div>s would have to 'float', i.e., would
not tesselate, and that is verboten.

pfs

On Tue, May 19, 2015, at 14:47, Lou Burnard wrote:

> I would use <quote> for  these things. That is, after all, what they are.
> Floating text is a possibility but not really honest since there's no
> surroundjng text for them to float in.
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab®|PRO
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Peter Boot
> Date:05/19/2015 18:48 (GMT+00:00)
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re:
> or ?
>
> Could you explain why you need the surrounding element at all? In the
> example that you give, the seg just surrounds a single p. Couldn't you
> have the ana-attribute on the p element and not have a seg at all?
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [mailto:TEI-
> > [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Rosanna Cantavella
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 7:18 PM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: [TEI-L] <div> or <seg>?
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I'm marking up a series of medieval troubadour poetry handbooks, in order
> > to localize and classify all different definitions and types of rhyme according
> > to this cultural tradition. I am not transcribing directly from the manuscripts
> > (often preserved in numerous witnesses), but from their modern editions;
> > and not marking these works in their entirety, but only those parts in which
> > definitions of rhyme are given in each text.
> >
> > I'm using <div> to enclose each fragment of text in which these definitions
> > appear inside a given work. These fragments are in some cases as short as a
> > paragraph, and in others as long as a chapter would be in a modern work. I
> > usually have no more than two or three divs for each work: <div n= “1”>, <div
> > n= “2”> etc.
> >
> > Now my question: within each <div> I usually find definitions of several types
> > of rhyme, which I'll duly mark up individually with @ana attributes (thanks
> > again, Lou!). But what element would you recommend for these arbitrary
> > (that is, created by me and not by the author) chunks of text inside each
> > <div>?
> >
> > a) Again <div>? (But how should I differentiate the enclosing divs from these
> > 'sub-divs'?)
> >
> > b) Switch to <seg>? (But I've only seen very short <seg> examples. I have to
> > enclose sometimes several paragraphs in one definition. Can <seg> enclose
> > whole paragraphs? And would <seg ana= “#A1”>, <seg ana= “#C3”> etc. be a
> > correct markup?)
> >
> > Hypothetical example:
> >
> > <div n= “1”> Bla bla bla … bla bla
> > <seg ana= “#C3”><p>DELS RIMS UTRISSONANS. Rim utrissonan son dig can la
> > vocals muda lo significat de la dictio. mudan lo so plenissonan. en so.
> > semissonan. o pel contrari. segon. quom pot ayssi vezer.
> > <lg>
> > <l>Sias tempratz e gent apres. </l>
> > <l>En tas paraulas et apres. </l>
> > <l>Si fas de compas e de pes. </l>
> > <l>Sas obras remandran enpes.</l>
> > </lg>
> > </p></seg>
> > <p>Bla bla bla...</p></div>
> >
> > As you can see, not every line of text inside every div refers to definitions,
> > and therefore not every line or paragraph would be enclosed by <seg> or by
> > these 'sub-divs'.
> >
> > Thank you in advance,
> >
> >
> > Rosanna
> >
> > Prof. Rosanna Cantavella
> > Universitat de València / Clare Hall, University of Cambridge
--
Paul Schaffner  Digital Library Production Service
[hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/


--
Paul Schaffner  Digital Library Production Service
[hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/
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Re: <div> or <seg>?

Fabio Ciotti-3
I was assuming that the text would be completely divided in sub-div. In the end in this case I would even force the tessalation adding ad hoc div, after all they are editorial divs, syntactic tools used by the encoder to annotate the text, not to describe a structure intrinsic to the text itself. 

f

2015-05-19 21:08 GMT+02:00 Paul Schaffner <[hidden email]>:
Yes sorry, I said <q> but in my head <q> is always shorthand for
(q|quote) or perhaps (q|quote|said).

And Fabio, the problem with using <div> in this case is
not the semantics of <div> (which are fine), but the
fact that the <div>s would have to 'float', i.e., would
not tesselate, and that is verboten.

pfs

On Tue, May 19, 2015, at 14:47, Lou Burnard wrote:
> I would use <quote> for  these things. That is, after all, what they are.
> Floating text is a possibility but not really honest since there's no
> surroundjng text for them to float in.
>
>
>
>
> Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Tab®|PRO
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Peter Boot
> Date:05/19/2015 18:48 (GMT+00:00)
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re:
> or ?
>
> Could you explain why you need the surrounding element at all? In the
> example that you give, the seg just surrounds a single p. Couldn't you
> have the ana-attribute on the p element and not have a seg at all?
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list [mailto:[hidden email]
> > [hidden email]] On Behalf Of Rosanna Cantavella
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2015 7:18 PM
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: [TEI-L] <div> or <seg>?
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > I'm marking up a series of medieval troubadour poetry handbooks, in order
> > to localize and classify all different definitions and types of rhyme according
> > to this cultural tradition. I am not transcribing directly from the manuscripts
> > (often preserved in numerous witnesses), but from their modern editions;
> > and not marking these works in their entirety, but only those parts in which
> > definitions of rhyme are given in each text.
> >
> > I'm using <div> to enclose each fragment of text in which these definitions
> > appear inside a given work. These fragments are in some cases as short as a
> > paragraph, and in others as long as a chapter would be in a modern work. I
> > usually have no more than two or three divs for each work: <div n= “1”>, <div
> > n= “2”> etc.
> >
> > Now my question: within each <div> I usually find definitions of several types
> > of rhyme, which I'll duly mark up individually with @ana attributes (thanks
> > again, Lou!). But what element would you recommend for these arbitrary
> > (that is, created by me and not by the author) chunks of text inside each
> > <div>?
> >
> > a) Again <div>? (But how should I differentiate the enclosing divs from these
> > 'sub-divs'?)
> >
> > b) Switch to <seg>? (But I've only seen very short <seg> examples. I have to
> > enclose sometimes several paragraphs in one definition. Can <seg> enclose
> > whole paragraphs? And would <seg ana= “#A1”>, <seg ana= “#C3”> etc. be a
> > correct markup?)
> >
> > Hypothetical example:
> >
> > <div n= “1”> Bla bla bla … bla bla
> > <seg ana= “#C3”><p>DELS RIMS UTRISSONANS. Rim utrissonan son dig can la
> > vocals muda lo significat de la dictio. mudan lo so plenissonan. en so.
> > semissonan. o pel contrari. segon. quom pot ayssi vezer.
> > <lg>
> > <l>Sias tempratz e gent apres. </l>
> > <l>En tas paraulas et apres. </l>
> > <l>Si fas de compas e de pes. </l>
> > <l>Sas obras remandran enpes.</l>
> > </lg>
> > </p></seg>
> > <p>Bla bla bla...</p></div>
> >
> > As you can see, not every line of text inside every div refers to definitions,
> > and therefore not every line or paragraph would be enclosed by <seg> or by
> > these 'sub-divs'.
> >
> > Thank you in advance,
> >
> >
> > Rosanna
> >
> > Prof. Rosanna Cantavella
> > Universitat de València / Clare Hall, University of Cambridge
--
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[hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/


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Paul Schaffner  Digital Library Production Service
[hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/



--
Fabio Ciotti
Dipartimento Studi Umanistici, Università di Roma Tor Vergata
Presidente Associazione Informatica Umanistica Cultura Digitale
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Re: <div> or <seg>?

Rosanna Cantavella
In reply to this post by Rosanna Cantavella
Thank you all for your responses. So, I've ruled out <seg> because the
chunks are too large for it, and ruled out too a sub- <div> because
there are often paragraphs between definitions that are not definitions
themselves and should not be marked, therefore giving a non-tessellated
text.

These are the alternatives as suggested by you:

–-Lou's <quote> suggestion would be ideal if it weren't that these
chunks often include quotations (the stanza in this example), but they
are not the quotation. Quotation is not automatically given in every
case; sometimes the author himself makes up the stanza with which he
exemplifies his definition. Sometimes he doesn't even give an example.
In any case, marking the sources (quotation or not) is not yet my aim,
not in this phase of my work; just the classifying of different medieval
definitions (which is giving me enough pain as it is ;)).

–-As to <ab> (thanks, Paul and Fabio), it would be perfect (marked with
the @ana attribute), if it weren't for the tessellating aspect of it.
Unless <ab> doesn't need tessellating? (Wishful thinking :)) But would
at least be possible a tessellation of <ab>s in which some of them have
@ana and others no attribute?


---The same with <div>: I could go and sub-<div> all fragments inside a
<div>. But again, some of these sub- <div>s would have the @ana
attribute, and others not. Is that acceptable?


–-Peter's suggestion of going for a <p ana= “#C3”> would be the most
tempting: simple, clean, with the <p>s ensuring tessellation. But again:

1) Can a <p> element enclose a chunk of text longer than what we would
consider a 'natural' paragraph? (As, in my example, one <p> enclosing a
passage in prose *and* one in verse? Some definitions can run even
longer.)

2) Can I use within the same <div> some <p>s with @ana, and others
without it?

As you see, I'm totally ignorant of the systematicity rule of use of
attributes within a given element. Sorry.

So here you have again my example, this time with the <p> option: a
division with three paragraphs, of which only the second one is marked
with the @ana attribute (thanks, Sebastian; in my haste I had forgotten
to mark up my first <p>!). Would this be acceptable?:

<div n= “1”> <p>Bla bla bla … bla bla</p>
<p ana= “#C3”>DELS RIMS UTRISSONANS. Rim utrissonan son dig can la
vocals muda lo significat de la dictio. mudan lo so plenissonan. en so.
semissonan. o pel contrari. segon. quom pot ayssi vezer.
<lg>
<l>Sias tempratz e gent apres. </l>
<l>En tas paraulas et apres. </l>
<l>Si fas de compas e de pes. </l>
<l>Sas obras remandran enpes.</l>
</lg>
</p>
<p>Bla bla bla</p></div>


If none of this is valid, I might have to think of stand-off markup, as
suggested by Sebastian –but must I really? :( .

Thanks again, Gabby, Paul, Sebastian, Peter, Fabio, Lou.


Rosanna

Prof. Rosanna Cantavella
Universitat de València / Clare Hall, University of Cambridge


> I was assuming that the text would be completely divided in sub-div.
In the
> end in this case I would even force the tessalation adding ad hoc div,
> after all they are editorial divs, syntactic tools used by the encoder
to
> annotate the text, not to describe a structure intrinsic to the text
> itself.
>
> f
>
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Re: <div> or <seg>?

Lou Burnard-6
On 20/05/15 09:49, Rosanna Cantavella wrote:
> –-Lou's <quote> suggestion would be ideal if it weren't that these
> chunks often include quotations (the stanza in this example), but they
> are not the quotation.

<quote> is typed and can self-nest so you can distinguish your quotes
from the quotes you are quoting (and even the quotes that are quoted
within the quotes that you are quoting... if you see what I mean)


>   Quotation is not automatically given in every
> case; sometimes the author himself makes up the stanza with which he
> exemplifies his definition. Sometimes he doesn't even give an example.

The point is that *you* are quoting from another source in order to make
up your text. So there is always at least one level of <quote>
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Re: <div> or <seg>?

Rosanna Cantavella
Oh! Thank you, Lou. This changes everything, of course.

I just took the <quote> definition at its face value:
"<quote> (quotation) contains a phrase or passage attributed by the
narrator or author to some agency external to the text"
(http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-quote.html).

As each definition belongs in the same text as the surrounding
paragraphs, I would have thought <quote> had to be ruled out. Glad to
know the solution was as easy as that!

Thank you again!


Rosanna

Prof. Rosanna Cantavella
Universitat de València / Clare Hall, University of Cambridge


>
>
> On 20/05/15 09:49, Rosanna Cantavella wrote:
> > –-Lou's <quote> suggestion would be ideal if it weren't that these
> > chunks often include quotations (the stanza in this example), but
they

> > are not the quotation.
>
> <quote> is typed and can self-nest so you can distinguish your quotes
> from the quotes you are quoting (and even the quotes that are quoted
> within the quotes that you are quoting... if you see what I mean)
>
>
> >   Quotation is not automatically given in every
> > case; sometimes the author himself makes up the stanza with which he
> > exemplifies his definition. Sometimes he doesn't even give an
example.
>
> The point is that *you* are quoting from another source in order to
make
> up your text. So there is always at least one level of <quote>
>
>
>
>