<sp> dans <seg>

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<sp> dans <seg>

Ioana Galleron
Dear all,

I am trying to encode some topical elements in several plays, and I thought about using the couple of tags <seg @ana> and <interp>, as recommended by the guidelines; I think I can define a quite stable taxonomy of elements, which I could use to mark up several plays, and several occurrences of some motifs in the same play - hence the choice of <interp> rather than simply resorting to the use of <span>.

(An example of such elements, for those interested and/ or for clarity sake: « recognition »; « husband and wife quarreling »; « confrontation of rival women » etc.; once again, these are widely used infra-scenes in the French plays of 17th and 18th century I am studying, so a common typology can be drafted of, and used to consistenly mark up several plays, by different authors).

Unfortunately, <seg> does not seem to accept <sp> as a child, nor <sp> <seg>. Actually, <seg> is accepted only inside <p> or <l> (some of my plays are in prose, other in verses).
I can work around it by using the <join> element, pointing to the xml:id of each speech, but this is a cumbersome task when the topical element I want to mark runs over dozen of speeches (but still, does not cover the entire scene). It would be much easier if I could start a <seg> before the appropriate <sp> and end it after the last one. 

What am I not doing correctly?  What else could I use to label chunks of text (of various lengths) after a coherent list of classes?
Best regards,
Ioana Galleron


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Re: <sp> dans <seg>

James Cummings-4
Hi Ioana,

I might be misunderstanding without a clear example, but if the
entirety of the speech is relating to a particular interpretation
then why not use the @ana attribute on the speech itself?  Then
where the interpretation stops or changes mid-speech then mark it
using <seg> inside the paragraph or verse lines. <seg> is
definitely only intended for phrase-level segments of text.  
(<ab> is the equivalent for paragraph-like anonymous blocks.)

<sp ana="#confrontation">
<p>Some text</p>
</sp>
<sp ana="#confrontation">
<l>Some verse continuing the confrontation</l>
</sp>
<sp>
<p><seg ana="#confrontation">Here some confrontation</seg> <seg
ana="#somethingElse">a different segment of interpretation</seg></p>
</sp>

These can indeed point to <interp> elements as you note, those
for some forms of more taxonomical interpretation there are those
who use @ana to point to a hierarchical <taxonomy> of many
<category> and sub <category> elements.

But maybe I've misunderstood.

Best wishes,
James


On 05/05/17 12:52, Ioana Galleron wrote:

> Dear all,
>
> I am trying to encode some topical elements in several plays,
> and I thought about using the couple of tags <seg @ana> and
> <interp>, as recommended by the guidelines; I think I can
> define a quite stable taxonomy of elements, which I could use
> to mark up several plays, and several occurrences of some
> motifs in the same play - hence the choice of <interp> rather
> than simply resorting to the use of <span>.
>
> (An example of such elements, for those interested and/ or for
> clarity sake: « recognition »; « husband and wife quarreling »;
> « confrontation of rival women » etc.; once again, these are
> widely used infra-scenes in the French plays of 17th and 18th
> century I am studying, so a common typology can be drafted of,
> and used to consistenly mark up several plays, by different
> authors).
>
> Unfortunately, <seg> does not seem to accept <sp> as a child,
> nor <sp> <seg>. Actually, <seg> is accepted only inside <p> or
> <l> (some of my plays are in prose, other in verses).
> I can work around it by using the <join> element, pointing to
> the xml:id of each speech, but this is a cumbersome task when
> the topical element I want to mark runs over dozen of speeches
> (but still, does not cover the entire scene). It would be much
> easier if I could start a <seg> before the appropriate <sp> and
> end it after the last one.
>
> What am I not doing correctly?  What else could I use to label
> chunks of text (of various lengths) after a coherent list of
> classes?
> Best regards,
> Ioana Galleron
>
>


--
Dr James Cummings, [hidden email]
Academic IT Services, University of Oxford
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Re: <sp> dans <seg>

Ioana Galleron
Hi James,

Thanks for answering fast!
I thought about it, but this means, in practice, that when I will seek for « confrontations » in my plays I’ll actually get as many as <sp> marked up, while in fact it is a series of <sp> which constitutes one confrontation; the limits of this topical scene will be more difficult to spot - hence the use of <join>…
I copy and paste a bit of a scene thus marked up, but since it is in French, I hesitated to do it the first time round.
Best,
Ioana 
<interp xml:id="Affront_Rivales">Afrrontement de femmes rivales, de caractère opposé.</interp>
<div type="scene" n="4" xml:id="III_4">
               <head>SCENE IV</head>
               <stage>CEPHISE, CIDALISE</stage>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_1">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Enfin, ma niece, il faut nous séparer, vous partirez demain, s'il vous plaît,
                     pour aller trouver votre pere; j’ai bien voulu me charger du soin de vous
                     l'apprendre, de crainte que mon mari ne vous le dît avec plus d'aigreur.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_2">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Je reçois tous les jours de ma vie, Madame, de nouvelles marques de vos bontés;
                     mais, Madame, voudriez-vous bien joindre une grâce à toutes les obligations que
                     je vous ai?</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_3">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Si c'est quelque chose qui dépende de moi, ma niece.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_4">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>La chose vous sera facile, Madame. </p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_5">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p> Ne me priez point surtout, de parler à mon mari pour vous.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_6">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Non, Madame.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_7">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Cela seroit inutile.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_8">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>J'en suis persuadée, Madame.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_9">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Il ne veut point souffrir que vous soyez davantage chez lui.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_10">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Je ne veux point y demeurer malgré lui, ni malgré vous, Madame.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_11">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Que voulez-vous donc que je fasse?</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_12">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Permettre que je puisse parler à mon oncle avant que de le quitter.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_13">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Non, ma niece, je ne vous le conseille pas, il est dans un trop grand
                     emportement contre vous.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_14">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Mais, au moins, ne puis-je savoir les crimes dont on m'accuse?</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_15">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Eh, mon Dieu, ma niece, rendez-vous un peu de justice! Pour moi, je vous crois
                     la plus innocente personne du monde; mais en vérité les apparences sont
                     terriblement contre vous.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_16">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Il est aisé d'empoisonner les choses les plus innocentes: mais cependant...</p>
               </sp>
               <join target="#III_4_1 #III_4_2 #III_4_3 #III_4_4 #III_4_5 #III_4_6 #III_4_7 #III_4_8 #III_4_9 #III_4_10" ana="#Affront_Rivales"/>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_17">
(the scene continus after this, but the conversatio moves to other topics).



Le 5 mai 2017 à 13:01, James Cummings <[hidden email]> a écrit :


Hi Ioana,

I might be misunderstanding without a clear example, but if the entirety of the speech is relating to a particular interpretation then why not use the @ana attribute on the speech itself?  Then where the interpretation stops or changes mid-speech then mark it using <seg> inside the paragraph or verse lines. <seg> is definitely only intended for phrase-level segments of text.  (<ab> is the equivalent for paragraph-like anonymous blocks.)

<sp ana="#confrontation">
<p>Some text</p>
</sp>
<sp ana="#confrontation">
<l>Some verse continuing the confrontation</l>
</sp>
<sp>
<p><seg ana="#confrontation">Here some confrontation</seg> <seg ana="#somethingElse">a different segment of interpretation</seg></p>
</sp>

These can indeed point to <interp> elements as you note, those for some forms of more taxonomical interpretation there are those who use @ana to point to a hierarchical <taxonomy> of many <category> and sub <category> elements.

But maybe I've misunderstood.

Best wishes,
James


On 05/05/17 12:52, Ioana Galleron wrote:
Dear all,

I am trying to encode some topical elements in several plays, and I thought about using the couple of tags <seg @ana> and <interp>, as recommended by the guidelines; I think I can define a quite stable taxonomy of elements, which I could use to mark up several plays, and several occurrences of some motifs in the same play - hence the choice of <interp> rather than simply resorting to the use of <span>.

(An example of such elements, for those interested and/ or for clarity sake: « recognition »; « husband and wife quarreling »; « confrontation of rival women » etc.; once again, these are widely used infra-scenes in the French plays of 17th and 18th century I am studying, so a common typology can be drafted of, and used to consistenly mark up several plays, by different authors).

Unfortunately, <seg> does not seem to accept <sp> as a child, nor <sp> <seg>. Actually, <seg> is accepted only inside <p> or <l> (some of my plays are in prose, other in verses).
I can work around it by using the <join> element, pointing to the xml:id of each speech, but this is a cumbersome task when the topical element I want to mark runs over dozen of speeches (but still, does not cover the entire scene). It would be much easier if I could start a <seg> before the appropriate <sp> and end it after the last one.

What am I not doing correctly?  What else could I use to label chunks of text (of various lengths) after a coherent list of classes?
Best regards,
Ioana Galleron




--
Dr James Cummings, [hidden email]
Academic IT Services, University of Oxford


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Re: <sp> dans <seg>

James Cummings-4
Hi Ioana,

Another approach might be to use <milestone/> to indicate the points at which things change, but I see the attraction for using <join/> as you are, and it can point to @xml:id's at any level. In this case they are all a set run of speeches which any solution would probably work but does it ever happen that one or two speeches break off and are not part of this set of confrontations in the middle?  If so then a pointing system like <join/> makes a lot of sense.  The output from a query for all the contiguous confrontations would be possible in any of the solutions I think. Asking for the xml:ids of all speeches between two milestones; asking for all the speeches that contain @ana='#Affront_Rivales' where either the next or previous speech also did; or all the targets from a join element. All possible, but depending on the technologies chosen some might be easier than others. (And the join solution is probably easiest from a processing point of view.)

Oh, and for the record I wouldn't hesitate to post encoding examples in French (or Latin, or Sumerian, or Japanese, or even Halkomelem if I had any) the TEI is international and so our discussions concerning text on this list should be.  My poor French happens to be good enough to read this scene (thanks!) and there are lots of native and fluent French speakers on the list.  (And indeed, in this case it doesn't really matter so much _what_ the text says as how you are choosing to encode it.)  I do recognise that asking the questions in English here will get more answers than asking in French, but I'd certainly not want to dissuade people from also asking questions in other languages if they wish.

Cordialement,

-James


On 05/05/17 13:09, Ioana Galleron wrote:
Hi James,

Thanks for answering fast!
I thought about it, but this means, in practice, that when I will seek for « confrontations » in my plays I’ll actually get as many as <sp> marked up, while in fact it is a series of <sp> which constitutes one confrontation; the limits of this topical scene will be more difficult to spot - hence the use of <join>…
I copy and paste a bit of a scene thus marked up, but since it is in French, I hesitated to do it the first time round.
Best,
Ioana 
<interp xml:id="Affront_Rivales">Afrrontement de femmes rivales, de caractère opposé.</interp>
<div type="scene" n="4" xml:id="III_4">
               <head>SCENE IV</head>
               <stage>CEPHISE, CIDALISE</stage>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_1">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Enfin, ma niece, il faut nous séparer, vous partirez demain, s'il vous plaît,
                     pour aller trouver votre pere; j’ai bien voulu me charger du soin de vous
                     l'apprendre, de crainte que mon mari ne vous le dît avec plus d'aigreur.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_2">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Je reçois tous les jours de ma vie, Madame, de nouvelles marques de vos bontés;
                     mais, Madame, voudriez-vous bien joindre une grâce à toutes les obligations que
                     je vous ai?</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_3">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Si c'est quelque chose qui dépende de moi, ma niece.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_4">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>La chose vous sera facile, Madame. </p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_5">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p> Ne me priez point surtout, de parler à mon mari pour vous.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_6">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Non, Madame.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_7">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Cela seroit inutile.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_8">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>J'en suis persuadée, Madame.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_9">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Il ne veut point souffrir que vous soyez davantage chez lui.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_10">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Je ne veux point y demeurer malgré lui, ni malgré vous, Madame.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_11">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Que voulez-vous donc que je fasse?</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_12">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Permettre que je puisse parler à mon oncle avant que de le quitter.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_13">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Non, ma niece, je ne vous le conseille pas, il est dans un trop grand
                     emportement contre vous.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_14">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Mais, au moins, ne puis-je savoir les crimes dont on m'accuse?</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_15">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Eh, mon Dieu, ma niece, rendez-vous un peu de justice! Pour moi, je vous crois
                     la plus innocente personne du monde; mais en vérité les apparences sont
                     terriblement contre vous.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_16">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Il est aisé d'empoisonner les choses les plus innocentes: mais cependant...</p>
               </sp>
               <join target="#III_4_1 #III_4_2 #III_4_3 #III_4_4 #III_4_5 #III_4_6 #III_4_7 #III_4_8 #III_4_9 #III_4_10" ana="#Affront_Rivales"/>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_17">
(the scene continus after this, but the conversatio moves to other topics).



Le 5 mai 2017 à 13:01, James Cummings <[hidden email]> a écrit :


Hi Ioana,

I might be misunderstanding without a clear example, but if the entirety of the speech is relating to a particular interpretation then why not use the @ana attribute on the speech itself?  Then where the interpretation stops or changes mid-speech then mark it using <seg> inside the paragraph or verse lines. <seg> is definitely only intended for phrase-level segments of text.  (<ab> is the equivalent for paragraph-like anonymous blocks.)

<sp ana="#confrontation">
<p>Some text</p>
</sp>
<sp ana="#confrontation">
<l>Some verse continuing the confrontation</l>
</sp>
<sp>
<p><seg ana="#confrontation">Here some confrontation</seg> <seg ana="#somethingElse">a different segment of interpretation</seg></p>
</sp>

These can indeed point to <interp> elements as you note, those for some forms of more taxonomical interpretation there are those who use @ana to point to a hierarchical <taxonomy> of many <category> and sub <category> elements.

But maybe I've misunderstood.

Best wishes,
James


On 05/05/17 12:52, Ioana Galleron wrote:
Dear all,

I am trying to encode some topical elements in several plays, and I thought about using the couple of tags <seg @ana> and <interp>, as recommended by the guidelines; I think I can define a quite stable taxonomy of elements, which I could use to mark up several plays, and several occurrences of some motifs in the same play - hence the choice of <interp> rather than simply resorting to the use of <span>.

(An example of such elements, for those interested and/ or for clarity sake: « recognition »; « husband and wife quarreling »; « confrontation of rival women » etc.; once again, these are widely used infra-scenes in the French plays of 17th and 18th century I am studying, so a common typology can be drafted of, and used to consistenly mark up several plays, by different authors).

Unfortunately, <seg> does not seem to accept <sp> as a child, nor <sp> <seg>. Actually, <seg> is accepted only inside <p> or <l> (some of my plays are in prose, other in verses).
I can work around it by using the <join> element, pointing to the xml:id of each speech, but this is a cumbersome task when the topical element I want to mark runs over dozen of speeches (but still, does not cover the entire scene). It would be much easier if I could start a <seg> before the appropriate <sp> and end it after the last one.

What am I not doing correctly?  What else could I use to label chunks of text (of various lengths) after a coherent list of classes?
Best regards,
Ioana Galleron




--
Dr James Cummings, [hidden email]
Academic IT Services, University of Oxford




-- 
Dr James Cummings, [hidden email] 
Academic IT Services, University of Oxford
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Re: <sp> dans <seg>

Elisa Beshero-Bondar-2
Hi Iona-- Since you point out that marking those complex <join/> @targets is cumbersome, I think we're seeking an easier solution for inline markup. I am using <milestone/> in a project for similar reasons as you indicate here: to indicate a series of something that could start, be interrupted, and end at any level of the structural hierarchy. The system we devised runs like this, so as to accommodate interruptions:

<milestone unit="start" ana="yourTopic"/>
<milestone unit="intStart"/> (for the start of an interruption) 
<milestone unit="intEnd"/>  (for the end of an interruption and return to the phenomenon you are marking)
<milestone unit="end"/> 

The @ana could go on all of those, but in my project we just set it on the @start, and we wrote some Schematron rules to make sure we signal the preceding:: and following:: milestone elements in the proper order. So, no milestone of @unit=intEnd may follow as the first milestone after one of @unit="start". I am happy to share the Schematron I wrote for just those rules, which I first wrote as a separate file and then converted into an ODD. I think it's easier to read as a Schematron file, for what it's worth! I suppose what I'm exchanging is one kind of cumbersome for another: if you have a schema that can check your sequence of milestone elements, your inline markup of something like this can be much easier.

Hope this is potentially useful!
Elisa
--
Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD 
Director, Center for the Digital Text
Associate Professor of English 
University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg
150 Finoli Drive, Greensburg, PA 15601 USA
E-mail: [hidden email] | Development site: http://newtfire.org

Typeset by hand on my iPad

On May 5, 2017, at 8:28 AM, James Cummings <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Ioana,

Another approach might be to use <milestone/> to indicate the points at which things change, but I see the attraction for using <join/> as you are, and it can point to @xml:id's at any level. In this case they are all a set run of speeches which any solution would probably work but does it ever happen that one or two speeches break off and are not part of this set of confrontations in the middle?  If so then a pointing system like <join/> makes a lot of sense.  The output from a query for all the contiguous confrontations would be possible in any of the solutions I think. Asking for the xml:ids of all speeches between two milestones; asking for all the speeches that contain @ana='#Affront_Rivales' where either the next or previous speech also did; or all the targets from a join element. All possible, but depending on the technologies chosen some might be easier than others. (And the join solution is probably easiest from a processing point of view.)

Oh, and for the record I wouldn't hesitate to post encoding examples in French (or Latin, or Sumerian, or Japanese, or even Halkomelem if I had any) the TEI is international and so our discussions concerning text on this list should be.  My poor French happens to be good enough to read this scene (thanks!) and there are lots of native and fluent French speakers on the list.  (And indeed, in this case it doesn't really matter so much _what_ the text says as how you are choosing to encode it.)  I do recognise that asking the questions in English here will get more answers than asking in French, but I'd certainly not want to dissuade people from also asking questions in other languages if they wish.

Cordialement,

-James


On 05/05/17 13:09, Ioana Galleron wrote:
Hi James,

Thanks for answering fast!
I thought about it, but this means, in practice, that when I will seek for « confrontations » in my plays I’ll actually get as many as <sp> marked up, while in fact it is a series of <sp> which constitutes one confrontation; the limits of this topical scene will be more difficult to spot - hence the use of <join>…
I copy and paste a bit of a scene thus marked up, but since it is in French, I hesitated to do it the first time round.
Best,
Ioana 
<interp xml:id="Affront_Rivales">Afrrontement de femmes rivales, de caractère opposé.</interp>
<div type="scene" n="4" xml:id="III_4">
               <head>SCENE IV</head>
               <stage>CEPHISE, CIDALISE</stage>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_1">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Enfin, ma niece, il faut nous séparer, vous partirez demain, s'il vous plaît,
                     pour aller trouver votre pere; j’ai bien voulu me charger du soin de vous
                     l'apprendre, de crainte que mon mari ne vous le dît avec plus d'aigreur.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_2">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Je reçois tous les jours de ma vie, Madame, de nouvelles marques de vos bontés;
                     mais, Madame, voudriez-vous bien joindre une grâce à toutes les obligations que
                     je vous ai?</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_3">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Si c'est quelque chose qui dépende de moi, ma niece.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_4">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>La chose vous sera facile, Madame. </p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_5">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p> Ne me priez point surtout, de parler à mon mari pour vous.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_6">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Non, Madame.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_7">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Cela seroit inutile.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_8">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>J'en suis persuadée, Madame.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_9">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Il ne veut point souffrir que vous soyez davantage chez lui.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_10">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Je ne veux point y demeurer malgré lui, ni malgré vous, Madame.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_11">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Que voulez-vous donc que je fasse?</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_12">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Permettre que je puisse parler à mon oncle avant que de le quitter.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_13">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Non, ma niece, je ne vous le conseille pas, il est dans un trop grand
                     emportement contre vous.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_14">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Mais, au moins, ne puis-je savoir les crimes dont on m'accuse?</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_15">
                  <speaker>CEPHISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Eh, mon Dieu, ma niece, rendez-vous un peu de justice! Pour moi, je vous crois
                     la plus innocente personne du monde; mais en vérité les apparences sont
                     terriblement contre vous.</p>
               </sp>
               <sp who="Cidalise" xml:id="III_4_16">
                  <speaker>CIDALISE<pc>.</pc></speaker>
                  <p>Il est aisé d'empoisonner les choses les plus innocentes: mais cependant...</p>
               </sp>
               <join target="#III_4_1 #III_4_2 #III_4_3 #III_4_4 #III_4_5 #III_4_6 #III_4_7 #III_4_8 #III_4_9 #III_4_10" ana="#Affront_Rivales"/>
               <sp who="Cephise" xml:id="III_4_17">
(the scene continus after this, but the conversatio moves to other topics).



Le 5 mai 2017 à 13:01, James Cummings <[hidden email]> a écrit :


Hi Ioana,

I might be misunderstanding without a clear example, but if the entirety of the speech is relating to a particular interpretation then why not use the @ana attribute on the speech itself?  Then where the interpretation stops or changes mid-speech then mark it using <seg> inside the paragraph or verse lines. <seg> is definitely only intended for phrase-level segments of text.  (<ab> is the equivalent for paragraph-like anonymous blocks.)

<sp ana="#confrontation">
<p>Some text</p>
</sp>
<sp ana="#confrontation">
<l>Some verse continuing the confrontation</l>
</sp>
<sp>
<p><seg ana="#confrontation">Here some confrontation</seg> <seg ana="#somethingElse">a different segment of interpretation</seg></p>
</sp>

These can indeed point to <interp> elements as you note, those for some forms of more taxonomical interpretation there are those who use @ana to point to a hierarchical <taxonomy> of many <category> and sub <category> elements.

But maybe I've misunderstood.

Best wishes,
James


On 05/05/17 12:52, Ioana Galleron wrote:
Dear all,

I am trying to encode some topical elements in several plays, and I thought about using the couple of tags <seg @ana> and <interp>, as recommended by the guidelines; I think I can define a quite stable taxonomy of elements, which I could use to mark up several plays, and several occurrences of some motifs in the same play - hence the choice of <interp> rather than simply resorting to the use of <span>.

(An example of such elements, for those interested and/ or for clarity sake: « recognition »; « husband and wife quarreling »; « confrontation of rival women » etc.; once again, these are widely used infra-scenes in the French plays of 17th and 18th century I am studying, so a common typology can be drafted of, and used to consistenly mark up several plays, by different authors).

Unfortunately, <seg> does not seem to accept <sp> as a child, nor <sp> <seg>. Actually, <seg> is accepted only inside <p> or <l> (some of my plays are in prose, other in verses).
I can work around it by using the <join> element, pointing to the xml:id of each speech, but this is a cumbersome task when the topical element I want to mark runs over dozen of speeches (but still, does not cover the entire scene). It would be much easier if I could start a <seg> before the appropriate <sp> and end it after the last one.

What am I not doing correctly?  What else could I use to label chunks of text (of various lengths) after a coherent list of classes?
Best regards,
Ioana Galleron




--
Dr James Cummings, [hidden email]
Academic IT Services, University of Oxford




-- 
Dr James Cummings, [hidden email] 
Academic IT Services, University of Oxford