place holder for note element

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place holder for note element

Martin Mueller

Is there an element that you can use as a place holder for <note> and that will be valid wherever <note> is valid?

 

I ask because in a linguistically annotated version of the TCP texts I am moving <note> elements from their current inline position to special <div> elements at the end of each text. There are several reasons for doing this: notes are a subgenre with distinct properties of their own, they have a lot of abbreviations and stuff in other languages. Moreover, they have five times as many transcription errors. So there are good practical reasons for making it easier to identify and extract them for various purposes. For display purposes, you can always call them up from anywhere.

 

Some notes have sigla, many do not.  But if you move them you need to mark the place from which you move them, and the marker element will either be empty or contain a letter, number, or other symbol. From a semantic perspective, <ref> would be an obvious choice, but its content model is much more restricted than that of note. Notes can appear as children of <div> and between <l> or <p> elements.  They often appear in those locations in  TCP texts.

 

I have thought of various kludges. You can wrap <ref> in <ab> . If the note has no siglum and the transcriber put it between <l> or <p> elements you can cheat and make it a child of the next or previous element on the assumption that your decision may be as defensible as the transcriber’s.  You could also use <note> as a place holder. So you could have <note type=”ref”> as a pointer to the real note. None of these strikes me as a very desirable solution.

 

It may be that often the transcribers did the wrong thing. Given a sequence of <l>  or <p> elements, a <note> between elements may not make much sense: which element does the note target?  On the other hand,  a note attached to a stanza (<lg>) makes perfect sense.  You can have <note> as the last child of <lg>, but you can’t have <ref>*</ref> as a place holder.

 

Am I missing something obvious here, or is this an odd gap in the element toolkit?

 

 

 

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Re: place holder for note element

Lou Burnard-6

Assuming I've understood correctly what you're trying to achieve here, I think you probably want <anchor>, not <ref>. <anchor> can appear anywhere (almost) since it's a milestonelike chappy. You can use its n attribute to hold the siglum of your note, and you can give it an xml:id. Then place it at the point of attachment for the <note> you're moving. 

On 08/05/17 14:47, Martin Mueller wrote:
Is there an element that you can use as a place holder for <note> and that will be valid wherever <note> is valid?

I ask because in a linguistically annotated version of the TCP texts I am moving <note> elements from their current inline position to special <div> elements at the end of each text. There are several reasons for doing this: notes are a subgenre with distinct properties of their own, they have a lot of abbreviations and stuff in other languages. Moreover, they have five times as many transcription errors. So there are good practical reasons for making it easier to identify and extract them for various purposes. For display purposes, you can always call them up from anywhere.

Some notes have sigla, many do not.  But if you move them you need to mark the place from which you move them, and the marker element will either be empty or contain a letter, number, or other symbol. From a semantic perspective, <ref> would be an obvious choice, but its content model is much more restricted than that of note. Notes can appear as children of <div> and between <l> or <p> elements.  They often appear in those locations in  TCP texts.

I have thought of various kludges. You can wrap <ref> in <ab> . If the note has no siglum and the transcriber put it between <l> or <p> elements you can cheat and make it a child of the next or previous element on the assumption that your decision may be as defensible as the transcriber’s.  You could also use <note> as a place holder. So you could have <note type=”ref”> as a pointer to the real note. None of these strikes me as a very desirable solution.

It may be that often the transcribers did the wrong thing. Given a sequence of <l>  or <p> elements, a <note> between elements may not make much sense: which element does the note target?  On the other hand,  a note attached to a stanza (<lg>) makes perfect sense.  You can have <note> as the last child of <lg>, but you can’t have <ref>*</ref> as a place holder.

Am I missing something obvious here, or is this an odd gap in the element toolkit?




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Re: place holder for note element

Martin Mueller

That would work. I should have thought of it, and in fact I did sort of think of it and looked for available elements as last child of <lb> using command –E in oXygen. It didn’t show <anchor>, and I think oXygen  doesn’t show any milestone elements. So I thought wrongly that it wouldn’t’ work. It’s a little glitch in oXygen. Pushing command –E for a list of valid elements is a lot simpler than looking it up in the Guidelines, and it would be great if you could completely trust oXygen on that score.

 

There is a literalist side in me that thinks that if something is clearly “in” a text stream, it should be represented as such and not be squirreled away in an attribute. However, I can live (a little reluctantly) with the idea that a note siglum is not really “in” the text stream

 

From: Lou Burnard <[hidden email]>
Date: Monday, May 8, 2017 at 9:04 AM
To: Martin Mueller <[hidden email]>, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: place holder for note element

 

Assuming I've understood correctly what you're trying to achieve here, I think you probably want <anchor>, not <ref>. <anchor> can appear anywhere (almost) since it's a milestonelike chappy. You can use its n attribute to hold the siglum of your note, and you can give it an xml:id. Then place it at the point of attachment for the <note> you're moving. 

On 08/05/17 14:47, Martin Mueller wrote:

Is there an element that you can use as a place holder for <note> and that will be valid wherever <note> is valid?
 
I ask because in a linguistically annotated version of the TCP texts I am moving <note> elements from their current inline position to special <div> elements at the end of each text. There are several reasons for doing this: notes are a subgenre with distinct properties of their own, they have a lot of abbreviations and stuff in other languages. Moreover, they have five times as many transcription errors. So there are good practical reasons for making it easier to identify and extract them for various purposes. For display purposes, you can always call them up from anywhere.
 
Some notes have sigla, many do not.  But if you move them you need to mark the place from which you move them, and the marker element will either be empty or contain a letter, number, or other symbol. From a semantic perspective, <ref> would be an obvious choice, but its content model is much more restricted than that of note. Notes can appear as children of <div> and between <l> or <p> elements.  They often appear in those locations in  TCP texts.
 
I have thought of various kludges. You can wrap <ref> in <ab> . If the note has no siglum and the transcriber put it between <l> or <p> elements you can cheat and make it a child of the next or previous element on the assumption that your decision may be as defensible as the transcriber’s.  You could also use <note> as a place holder. So you could have <note type=”ref”> as a pointer to the real note. None of these strikes me as a very desirable solution.
 
It may be that often the transcribers did the wrong thing. Given a sequence of <l>  or <p> elements, a <note> between elements may not make much sense: which element does the note target?  On the other hand,  a note attached to a stanza (<lg>) makes perfect sense.  You can have <note> as the last child of <lg>, but you can’t have <ref>*</ref> as a place holder.
 
Am I missing something obvious here, or is this an odd gap in the element toolkit?
 
 
 

 

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Re: place holder for note element

Lou Burnard-6

oXygen will only tell you about elements which are available in your schema. If you're using a schema that doesn't include <anchor> oXygen won't tantalize you by suggesting it.



On 08/05/17 15:17, Martin Mueller wrote:
That would work. I should have thought of it, and in fact I did sort of think of it and looked for available elements as last child of <lb> using command –E in oXygen. It didn’t show <anchor>, and I think oXygen  doesn’t show any milestone elements. So I thought wrongly that it wouldn’t’ work. It’s a little glitch in oXygen. Pushing command –E for a list of valid elements is a lot simpler than looking it up in the Guidelines, and it would be great if you could completely trust oXygen on that score.

There is a literalist side in me that thinks that if something is clearly “in” a text stream, it should be represented as such and not be squirreled away in an attribute. However, I can live (a little reluctantly) with the idea that a note siglum is not really “in” the text stream

From: Lou Burnard [hidden email]
Date: Monday, May 8, 2017 at 9:04 AM
To: Martin Mueller [hidden email], [hidden email] [hidden email]
Subject: Re: place holder for note element


Assuming I've understood correctly what you're trying to achieve here, I think you probably want <anchor>, not <ref>. <anchor> can appear anywhere (almost) since it's a milestonelike chappy. You can use its n attribute to hold the siglum of your note, and you can give it an xml:id. Then place it at the point of attachment for the <note> you're moving.
On 08/05/17 14:47, Martin Mueller wrote:

Is there an element that you can use as a place holder for <note> and that will be valid wherever <note> is valid?



I ask because in a linguistically annotated version of the TCP texts I am moving <note> elements from their current inline position to special <div> elements at the end of each text. There are several reasons for doing this: notes are a subgenre with distinct properties of their own, they have a lot of abbreviations and stuff in other languages. Moreover, they have five times as many transcription errors. So there are good practical reasons for making it easier to identify and extract them for various purposes. For display purposes, you can always call them up from anywhere.



Some notes have sigla, many do not.  But if you move them you need to mark the place from which you move them, and the marker element will either be empty or contain a letter, number, or other symbol. From a semantic perspective, <ref> would be an obvious choice, but its content model is much more restricted than that of note. Notes can appear as children of <div> and between <l> or <p> elements.  They often appear in those locations in  TCP texts.



I have thought of various kludges. You can wrap <ref> in <ab> . If the note has no siglum and the transcriber put it between <l> or <p> elements you can cheat and make it a child of the next or previous element on the assumption that your decision may be as defensible as the transcriber’s.  You could also use <note> as a place holder. So you could have <note type=”ref”> as a pointer to the real note. None of these strikes me as a very desirable solution.



It may be that often the transcribers did the wrong thing. Given a sequence of <l>  or <p> elements, a <note> between elements may not make much sense: which element does the note target?  On the other hand,  a note attached to a stanza (<lg>) makes perfect sense.  You can have <note> as the last child of <lg>, but you can’t have <ref>*</ref> as a place holder.



Am I missing something obvious here, or is this an odd gap in the element toolkit?