suggestions on tagging tunes?

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
9 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

suggestions on tagging tunes?

Steven L. Newman

Dear Learned List,

 

I am part of a team working on a TEI and MEI edition of The Beggar’s Opera as part of a larger DH site; we have started coding the text, and I’d be grateful if you could help us with a tagging issue that has emerged.  There are 69 songs in the play, and they are set to various airs (almost all of them identified in the text). We want to tag them for many reasons—to pull them out and link them with the sources, to link them with the MEI component of the site, audio clips, etc.  But the P5 guidelines do not seem to offer a specific tag.  I searched the tei-l archives and the only suggestion I could find dates from 10 years ago, from Paul Schaffner at the University of Michigan, suggesting <head type="tune”>as the way to go.  That may still be the best option, but I wanted to see if you all had any alternatives to suggest. As an example, here is the first song in the text:

 

floatingText xml:lang="eng">
                       
<body>
                          
<div type="song" n="1">

                             
<head>AIR I. An old Woman cloathed in Gray, &amp;</head>

                             
<l>Through all the Employments of Life</l>
                             
<l>Each Neighbour abuses his Brother;</l>
                             
<l>Whore and Rogue they call Husband and Wife:</l>
                             
<l>All Professions be-rogue one another.</l>
                             
<l>The Priest calls the Lawyer a Cheat,</l>
                             
<l>The Lawyer be-knaves the Divine;</l>
                             
<l>And the Statesman, because he’s so great,</l>
                             
<l>Thinks his Trade as honest as mine.</l>


                          
</div>
                       
</body>
                    
</floatingText>

 

 

Thank  you! 

 

 

Sincerely,

Steve

 

 

Steve Newman, Ph.D.

Associate Professor

Department of English

Editor, The Gentle Shepherd for The Edinburgh Allan Ramsay (Edinburgh UP)

President, Temple Association of University Professionals (AFT #4531)

https://sites.temple.edu/snewmanbio/

 

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: suggestions on tagging tunes?

Paul Schaffner
For what it's worth, and it isn't much, since I do not now recall
my rationale for choosing this option, we in the end chose to
place tune designations in <opener>. Thus:

<opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Jockey.</hi></opener>
<opener>To the Tune of, Queen <hi>Dido.</hi></opener>
<opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Crim&s;on velvet,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
<opener>To the tune of, Dulcina.</opener>
<opener>To the Tune of <hi>How Unhappy is <hi>Phillis</hi> in Love.</hi></opener>
<opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Evening Ramble,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
<opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Pollwarth</hi> on the Green.</opener>
<opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Loyal Health.</hi> Or, <hi>Why are my eyes &s;till flowing,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
<opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Hey Boys up go we.</hi></opener>
<opener>To the Tune of, King <hi>Iames's</hi>Jigg; Or, The Country Farmer.</opener>
<opener>To the Tune of, Tender hearts of <hi>London</hi> City.</opener>
<opener>To the Tune of, <hi>I have a Mi&s;tris of my own.</hi></opener>
<opener>To the Tune of the bony Broom.</opener>
<opener>To the Tune of <hi>Packintons pound.</hi></opener>
<opener>To the tune of, I tell you but &s;o.</opener>
<opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Jenny Gin.</hi> or, the fair one let me in.</opener>
<opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Bodkins Galliard.</hi></opener>
<opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Guinea Wins her.</hi></opener>
<opener>To the tune of, <hi>The Fleat at Sea.</hi></opener>
<opener>To the Tune of, Royal News, Royal News.</opener>
<opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Bleeding Heart,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
<opener>To the Tune of Packingtons Pound; Or, Digby's farewel.</opener>
<opener>To the Tune of St. <hi>George.</hi></opener>


pfs


On Thu, Jul 11, 2019, at 20:32, Steven L. Newman wrote:

>  
> Dear Learned List,
>
>
> I am part of a team working on a TEI and MEI edition of *The Beggar’s
> Opera *as part of a larger DH site; we have started coding the text,
> and I’d be grateful if you could help us with a tagging issue that has
> emerged. There are 69 songs in the play, and they are set to various
> airs (almost all of them identified in the text). We want to tag them
> for many reasons—to pull them out and link them with the sources, to
> link them with the MEI component of the site, audio clips, etc. But the
> P5 guidelines do not seem to offer a specific tag. I searched the tei-l
> archives and the only suggestion I could find dates from 10 years ago,
> from Paul Schaffner at the University of Michigan, suggesting  <head
> type="tune”>as the way to go. That may still be the best option, but I
> wanted to see if you all had any alternatives to suggest. As an
> example, here is the first song in the text:
>
>
> floatingText xml:lang="eng">
> <body>
> <div type="song" n="1">
>
> <head>AIR I. An old Woman cloathed in Gray, &amp;</head>
>
> <l>Through all the Employments of Life</l>
> <l>Each Neighbour abuses his Brother;</l>
> <l>Whore and Rogue they call Husband and Wife:</l>
> <l>All Professions be-rogue one another.</l>
> <l>The Priest calls the Lawyer a Cheat,</l>
> <l>The Lawyer be-knaves the Divine;</l>
> <l>And the Statesman, because he’s so great,</l>
> <l>Thinks his Trade as honest as mine.</l>
>
>
> </div>
> </body>
> </floatingText>
>
>
>
> Thank you!
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> Steve Newman, Ph.D.
>
> Associate Professor
>
> Department of English
>
> Editor, *The Gentle Shepherd *for *The Edinburgh Allan Ramsay *(Edinburgh UP)
>
> President, Temple Association of University Professionals (AFT #4531)
>
> https://sites.temple.edu/snewmanbio/ 
>
>

--
Paul Schaffner  Digital Content & Collections
University of Michigan Libraries
[hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: suggestions on tagging tunes?

Paul Schaffner
That, of course, is for the tune designation at the head (or foot) of
a ballad, etc. On the other hand, the tune name itself, which I've tagged here as
simply <hi>, is another matter, and may be regarded as any number of other
things, I suppose, for which suggestions are welcome. It would seem to be
a referring string, a title of sorts (usually of the incipit sort), maybe
even a condensed quotation.

pfs

On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, at 09:15, Paul Schaffner wrote:

> For what it's worth, and it isn't much, since I do not now recall
> my rationale for choosing this option, we in the end chose to
> place tune designations in <opener>. Thus:
>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Jockey.</hi></opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, Queen <hi>Dido.</hi></opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Crim&s;on velvet,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
> <opener>To the tune of, Dulcina.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of <hi>How Unhappy is <hi>Phillis</hi> in
> Love.</hi></opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Evening Ramble,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Pollwarth</hi> on the Green.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Loyal Health.</hi> Or, <hi>Why are my
> eyes &s;till flowing,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Hey Boys up go we.</hi></opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, King <hi>Iames's</hi>Jigg; Or, The Country
> Farmer.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, Tender hearts of <hi>London</hi> City.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>I have a Mi&s;tris of my own.</hi></opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of the bony Broom.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of <hi>Packintons pound.</hi></opener>
> <opener>To the tune of, I tell you but &s;o.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Jenny Gin.</hi> or, the fair one let me
> in.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Bodkins Galliard.</hi></opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Guinea Wins her.</hi></opener>
> <opener>To the tune of, <hi>The Fleat at Sea.</hi></opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, Royal News, Royal News.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Bleeding Heart,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of Packingtons Pound; Or, Digby's farewel.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of St. <hi>George.</hi></opener>
>
>
> pfs
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019, at 20:32, Steven L. Newman wrote:
> >  
> > Dear Learned List,
> >
> >
> > I am part of a team working on a TEI and MEI edition of *The Beggar’s
> > Opera *as part of a larger DH site; we have started coding the text,
> > and I’d be grateful if you could help us with a tagging issue that has
> > emerged. There are 69 songs in the play, and they are set to various
> > airs (almost all of them identified in the text). We want to tag them
> > for many reasons—to pull them out and link them with the sources, to
> > link them with the MEI component of the site, audio clips, etc. But the
> > P5 guidelines do not seem to offer a specific tag. I searched the tei-l
> > archives and the only suggestion I could find dates from 10 years ago,
> > from Paul Schaffner at the University of Michigan, suggesting  <head
> > type="tune”>as the way to go. That may still be the best option, but I
> > wanted to see if you all had any alternatives to suggest. As an
> > example, here is the first song in the text:
> >
> >
> > floatingText xml:lang="eng">
> > <body>
> > <div type="song" n="1">
> >
> > <head>AIR I. An old Woman cloathed in Gray, &amp;</head>
> >
> > <l>Through all the Employments of Life</l>
> > <l>Each Neighbour abuses his Brother;</l>
> > <l>Whore and Rogue they call Husband and Wife:</l>
> > <l>All Professions be-rogue one another.</l>
> > <l>The Priest calls the Lawyer a Cheat,</l>
> > <l>The Lawyer be-knaves the Divine;</l>
> > <l>And the Statesman, because he’s so great,</l>
> > <l>Thinks his Trade as honest as mine.</l>
> >
> >
> > </div>
> > </body>
> > </floatingText>
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> >
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> >
> > Steve Newman, Ph.D.
> >
> > Associate Professor
> >
> > Department of English
> >
> > Editor, *The Gentle Shepherd *for *The Edinburgh Allan Ramsay *(Edinburgh UP)
> >
> > President, Temple Association of University Professionals (AFT #4531)
> >
> > https://sites.temple.edu/snewmanbio/ 
> >
> >
>
> --
> Paul Schaffner  Digital Content & Collections
> University of Michigan Libraries
> [hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/

--
Paul Schaffner  Digital Content & Collections
University of Michigan Libraries
[hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: suggestions on tagging tunes?

Syd Bauman-10
In reply to this post by Steven L. Newman
I'm not 100% sure what you're getting at here. (I don't think I've
heard _The Beggar's Opera_ since I was a lad.) There are lots of
songs in the play (which sorta makes it a musical, eh?) that are sung
to the tune of some recognizable song that the audience would
recognize, but with different lyrics that further the plot of the
drama? (Not entirely unlike the <ref
target="https://www.tei-c.org/Vault/Songs/">TEI spoof songs</>, eh?)
And you want to provide links from the transcription of the lyrics as
sung to the original song to which tune they are sung?

Pretty cool problem. Some thoughts, some of which are probably good,
some of which may well be stupid, in no particular order ...

 * First thought is to use <link>:
     <linkGrp type="sungTo">
       <!-- In each case the 1st URI points to the song as sung herein,
            the 2nd URI points to a bibliographic entry for the original
            song to which tune the one herein is sung. That <bibl> may
            include pointers to an audio recording and an MEI encoding
            of the original song. -->
       <link target="#song01 tbo:songBibl.xml#air01"/>
       <link target="#song02 tbo:songBibl.xml#air02"/>
       <!-- ... -->
       <link target="#song69 tbo:songBibl.xml#air69"/>
     </linkGrp>
   Note that the prefix "tbo:" would be defined in a <prefixDef> in
   the <teiHeader>.

 * Second thought is to create a new attribute for the purpose:
     <div type="song" tbo:sungTo="contextual/origSongs.xml#air01">
   In this case the prefix "tbo:" is a normal XML namespace prefix,
   typically declared on the outermost <TEI> or <teiCorpus> element.

 * Third thought is to use <ref>:
     <head>AIR I. <ref target="contextual/origSongs.xml#WciG">An old Woman
           cloathed in Gray</ref>, &amp;</head>

 * Another idea works particularly well if you are aligning the
   transcription of the song as sung in _The Beggar's Opera_ with a
   transcription of the original song. That seems like a use case for
   @corresp.

 * Another idea is to explicitly state that it is your analysis that
   the song as transcribed is intended to be sung to a particular
   tune (based on good evidence, of course, including the heading
   which says so :-). I don't like this very much because
   a) you can't use <interp>, because it does not allow any real
      child element with which you could point to information about
      (or audio of, or MEI of, or whatever) the song sung to;
   b) I am not a fan of <span>, since I don't understand
      the semantic difference between @from, @target, and @inst (if
      there is any).
   But it isn't crazy:
     <span inst="#air01">Sung to the tune of <ref
           target="contextual/origSongs.xml#WciG">An old Woman
           cloathed in gray</ref>.</span>


Separate issue:
|  <floatingText xml:lang="eng">

The correct value for English is "en", not "eng". The value of
@xml:lang is defined by the XML specification:
   The values of the attribute are language identifiers as defined by
   [IETF BCP 47], Tags for the Identification of Languages; in
   addition, the empty string may be specified.
The IANA language subtag registry[1] referred to by BCP 47 gives the
tag "en" for "English". We (TEI) have no control over this. (And I
note that _The Beggar's Opera_ is a bit too late for "en-emodeng" :-)

Notes
-----
[1] https://www.iana.org/assignments/language-subtag-registry/language-subtag-registry

> I am part of a team working on a TEI and MEI edition of The
> Beggar's Opera as part of a larger DH site; we have started coding
> the text, and I'd be grateful if you could help us with a tagging
> issue that has emerged. There are 69 songs in the play, and they
> are set to various airs (almost all of them identified in the
> text). We want to tag them for many reasons-to pull them out and
> link them with the sources, to link them with the MEI component of
> the site, audio clips, etc. But the P5 guidelines do not seem to
> offer a specific tag. I searched the tei-l archives and the only
> suggestion I could find dates from 10 years ago, from Paul
> Schaffner at the University of Michigan, suggesting <head
> type="tune">as the way to go. That may still be the best option,
> but I wanted to see if you all had any alternatives to suggest. As
> an example, here is the first song in the text:
>
> floatingText xml:lang="eng">
>                         <body>
>                            <div type="song" n="1">
>
>                               <head>AIR I. An old Woman cloathed in Gray, &amp;</head>
>
>                               <l>Through all the Employments of Life</l>
>                               <l>Each Neighbour abuses his Brother;</l>
>                               <l>Whore and Rogue they call Husband and Wife:</l>
>                               <l>All Professions be-rogue one another.</l>
>                               <l>The Priest calls the Lawyer a Cheat,</l>
>                               <l>The Lawyer be-knaves the Divine;</l>
>                               <l>And the Statesman, because he's so great,</l>
>                               <l>Thinks his Trade as honest as mine.</l>
>
>
>                            </div>
>                         </body>
>                      </floatingText>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: suggestions on tagging tunes?

Paul Schaffner
In reply to this post by Steven L. Newman
Songs (and hymns) in fact often suffer from the problem that they
are both words and music, at least implicitly. Even if only the
words or the music is printed, the other may be referred to; or
the two may be visually commingled in various ways. One strategy,
I think, is to leave them commingled and distinguish between features
belonging to the words or to the music by attributes; another might
be to separate the words and music into separate divs, so that the
the appropriate div-liminal tags can inherit their meaning from their
context. E.g.

<div type="song">
  <div type="words">
     <head>A New Song</head>
  </div>
  <div type="music">
     <head>To the tune of Pull on Lads!</head>
  </div>
</div>

Hymnbooks and songbooks are great at commingling the
information, and often good at using physical arrangement
as a code to what the various bits mean and how they relate
to each other. Here, for example, are four randomly
selected editions of Isaac Watts' hymn (originally called
'holy fortitude') generally known as 'Am I a Soldier of the
Cross?'):

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~pfs/tei/soldier.jpg

Some versions privilege the tune, some the words, some
supply a title for both and an author for both, along
with biographical details and metrical descriptions ("C.M."),
all of which pose something of a challenge to the
encoder. As always, the first task is to figure out
what they are; how to capture the information is less
important.

version at top left:
div head (running head): Christian warfare
  words
    head: Am I a Soldier of the Cross
    author: Isaac Watts (identified by being at left)
  music
    head: Arlington
    author: T. M. Arne (identified by being at right)
   
version at top right:
div head (running head): none
  words
    head: No. 225. (no real title)
    author: Isaac Watts
  music
    head: Christmas C.M.
    author: G. F. Handel
   
version at bottom left, with tune privileged):
div head (running head): Prayer.
  words
    head: No. 49. (no real title)
    author: not given
  music
    head: McAnallly. C.M. Double.
    author: R. M. McIntosh.
   
version at bottom right:
div head (running head): The Christian Life: Sanctification
  words
    head: 274. Am I a Soldier of the Cross?
    author: Isaac Watts, (1674-1748). Altered.
      (identified by being at bottom of text block)
  music
    head: Arlington. C.M. (First Tune)
    Author: Thomas Augustine Arne, Mus. Doc., (1710-1778), 1762.
   
    head: Marlow. C.M. (Second Tune)
    author: Arr. by Dr.Lowell Mason, 1832. Rev. John Chetham, (1685?-1760), 1718.
   
 
pfs


On Thu, Jul 11, 2019, at 20:32, Steven L. Newman wrote:

>  
> Dear Learned List,
>
>
> I am part of a team working on a TEI and MEI edition of *The Beggar’s
> Opera *as part of a larger DH site; we have started coding the text,
> and I’d be grateful if you could help us with a tagging issue that has
> emerged. There are 69 songs in the play, and they are set to various
> airs (almost all of them identified in the text). We want to tag them
> for many reasons—to pull them out and link them with the sources, to
> link them with the MEI component of the site, audio clips, etc. But the
> P5 guidelines do not seem to offer a specific tag. I searched the tei-l
> archives and the only suggestion I could find dates from 10 years ago,
> from Paul Schaffner at the University of Michigan, suggesting  <head
> type="tune”>as the way to go. That may still be the best option, but I
> wanted to see if you all had any alternatives to suggest. As an
> example, here is the first song in the text:
>
>
> floatingText xml:lang="eng">
> <body>
> <div type="song" n="1">
>
> <head>AIR I. An old Woman cloathed in Gray, &amp;</head>
>
> <l>Through all the Employments of Life</l>
> <l>Each Neighbour abuses his Brother;</l>
> <l>Whore and Rogue they call Husband and Wife:</l>
> <l>All Professions be-rogue one another.</l>
> <l>The Priest calls the Lawyer a Cheat,</l>
> <l>The Lawyer be-knaves the Divine;</l>
> <l>And the Statesman, because he’s so great,</l>
> <l>Thinks his Trade as honest as mine.</l>
>
>
> </div>
> </body>
> </floatingText>
>
>
>
> Thank you!
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> Steve Newman, Ph.D.
>
> Associate Professor
>
> Department of English
>
> Editor, *The Gentle Shepherd *for *The Edinburgh Allan Ramsay *(Edinburgh UP)
>
> President, Temple Association of University Professionals (AFT #4531)
>
> https://sites.temple.edu/snewmanbio/ 
>
>

--
Paul Schaffner  Digital Content & Collections
University of Michigan Libraries
[hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/
lou
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: suggestions on tagging tunes?

lou
In reply to this post by Paul Schaffner
[coming a bit late to the party]

I'm a simple minded person, so I think a simple solutions are generally preferable .

1. The songs in the Beggar's Opera are definitely parts of the text rather than interruptions to it -- so I wouldn't use <floatingText> for them, but <lg>
2. Things like  "Air 1 - "An old woman, clothed in grey" are headings for the songs that follow, so I would use <head> for them
3. The phrase "An old woman, clothed in grey" is the title of a song, so I would use <title> for it (within the <head>)
4. I would align the title element with any available standard entry for that song in a catalogue, if there is one, by means of its @ref attribute
5. If I have an MEI (or something else) version of the song, I would use @corresp or @source to point to it -- it's not part of the text I am transcribing so I'd be cautious about including it in my transcript.




On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 at 14:26, Paul Schaffner <[hidden email]> wrote:
That, of course, is for the tune designation at the head (or foot) of
a ballad, etc. On the other hand, the tune name itself, which I've tagged here as
simply <hi>, is another matter, and may be regarded as any number of other
things, I suppose, for which suggestions are welcome. It would seem to be
a referring string, a title of sorts (usually of the incipit sort), maybe
even a condensed quotation.

pfs

On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, at 09:15, Paul Schaffner wrote:
> For what it's worth, and it isn't much, since I do not now recall
> my rationale for choosing this option, we in the end chose to
> place tune designations in <opener>. Thus:
>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Jockey.</hi></opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, Queen <hi>Dido.</hi></opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Crim&s;on velvet,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
> <opener>To the tune of, Dulcina.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of <hi>How Unhappy is <hi>Phillis</hi> in
> Love.</hi></opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Evening Ramble,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Pollwarth</hi> on the Green.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Loyal Health.</hi> Or, <hi>Why are my
> eyes &s;till flowing,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Hey Boys up go we.</hi></opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, King <hi>Iames's</hi>Jigg; Or, The Country
> Farmer.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, Tender hearts of <hi>London</hi> City.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>I have a Mi&s;tris of my own.</hi></opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of the bony Broom.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of <hi>Packintons pound.</hi></opener>
> <opener>To the tune of, I tell you but &s;o.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Jenny Gin.</hi> or, the fair one let me
> in.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Bodkins Galliard.</hi></opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Guinea Wins her.</hi></opener>
> <opener>To the tune of, <hi>The Fleat at Sea.</hi></opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, Royal News, Royal News.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Bleeding Heart,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of Packingtons Pound; Or, Digby's farewel.</opener>
> <opener>To the Tune of St. <hi>George.</hi></opener>
>
>
> pfs
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 11, 2019, at 20:32, Steven L. Newman wrote:
> > 
> > Dear Learned List,
> >
> >
> > I am part of a team working on a TEI and MEI edition of *The Beggar’s
> > Opera *as part of a larger DH site; we have started coding the text,
> > and I’d be grateful if you could help us with a tagging issue that has
> > emerged. There are 69 songs in the play, and they are set to various
> > airs (almost all of them identified in the text). We want to tag them
> > for many reasons—to pull them out and link them with the sources, to
> > link them with the MEI component of the site, audio clips, etc. But the
> > P5 guidelines do not seem to offer a specific tag. I searched the tei-l
> > archives and the only suggestion I could find dates from 10 years ago,
> > from Paul Schaffner at the University of Michigan, suggesting  <head
> > type="tune”>as the way to go. That may still be the best option, but I
> > wanted to see if you all had any alternatives to suggest. As an
> > example, here is the first song in the text:
> >
> >
> > floatingText xml:lang="eng">
> > <body>
> > <div type="song" n="1">
> >
> > <head>AIR I. An old Woman cloathed in Gray, &amp;</head>
> >
> > <l>Through all the Employments of Life</l>
> > <l>Each Neighbour abuses his Brother;</l>
> > <l>Whore and Rogue they call Husband and Wife:</l>
> > <l>All Professions be-rogue one another.</l>
> > <l>The Priest calls the Lawyer a Cheat,</l>
> > <l>The Lawyer be-knaves the Divine;</l>
> > <l>And the Statesman, because he’s so great,</l>
> > <l>Thinks his Trade as honest as mine.</l>
> >
> >
> > </div>
> > </body>
> > </floatingText>
> >
> >
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> >
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> >
> > Steve Newman, Ph.D.
> >
> > Associate Professor
> >
> > Department of English
> >
> > Editor, *The Gentle Shepherd *for *The Edinburgh Allan Ramsay *(Edinburgh UP)
> >
> > President, Temple Association of University Professionals (AFT #4531)
> >
> > https://sites.temple.edu/snewmanbio/
> >
> >
>
> --
> Paul Schaffner  Digital Content & Collections
> University of Michigan Libraries
> [hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/

--
Paul Schaffner  Digital Content & Collections
University of Michigan Libraries
[hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: suggestions on tagging tunes?

Paul Schaffner
I'm floundering about as usual, but I think the problem, Lou, is
that the 'heads' are not actually heads to the songs that they seem to
head -- they are the heads of prior songs associated with particular
tunes, and therefore, effectively tune names; they are specifically the heads
of the ballads from which Gay made his pastiche, and therefore not
properly the heads of his versions at all. So Air II bears the
head "the bonny gray-eyed morn" -- but that title has nothing to
do with the text of his air, and is therefore not properly the head
of the air in question: it is actually a reference to a published
ballad (https://digital.nls.uk/broadsides/view/?id=14483) and to
the tune associated with that ballad. Which is why I brought up
the familiar "to the tune of..." lines so familiar in the broadside
ballads. Gay's 'titles' are functioning much as the "to the tune of.."
lines function.  

But i may have misunderstood! Someone will correct me.

pfs

On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, at 13:10, Lou Burnard wrote:

> [coming a bit late to the party]
>
> I'm a simple minded person, so I think a simple solutions are generally
> preferable .
>
> 1. The songs in the Beggar's Opera are definitely parts of the text
> rather than interruptions to it -- so I wouldn't use <floatingText> for
> them, but <lg>
> 2. Things like "Air 1 - "An old woman, clothed in grey" are headings
> for the songs that follow, so I would use <head> for them
> 3. The phrase "An old woman, clothed in grey" is the title of a song,
> so I would use <title> for it (within the <head>)
> 4. I would align the title element with any available standard entry
> for that song in a catalogue, if there is one, by means of its @ref
> attribute
> 5. If I have an MEI (or something else) version of the song, I would
> use @corresp or @source to point to it -- it's not part of the text I
> am transcribing so I'd be cautious about including it in my transcript.
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 at 14:26, Paul Schaffner <[hidden email]> wrote:
> > That, of course, is for the tune designation at the head (or foot) of
> >  a ballad, etc. On the other hand, the tune name itself, which I've tagged here as
> >  simply <hi>, is another matter, and may be regarded as any number of other
> >  things, I suppose, for which suggestions are welcome. It would seem to be
> >  a referring string, a title of sorts (usually of the incipit sort), maybe
> >  even a condensed quotation.
> >
> >  pfs
> >
> >  On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, at 09:15, Paul Schaffner wrote:
> >  > For what it's worth, and it isn't much, since I do not now recall
> >  > my rationale for choosing this option, we in the end chose to
> >  > place tune designations in <opener>. Thus:
> >  >
> >  > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Jockey.</hi></opener>
> >  > <opener>To the Tune of, Queen <hi>Dido.</hi></opener>
> >  > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Crim&s;on velvet,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
> >  > <opener>To the tune of, Dulcina.</opener>
> >  > <opener>To the Tune of <hi>How Unhappy is <hi>Phillis</hi> in
> >  > Love.</hi></opener>
> >  > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Evening Ramble,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
> >  > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Pollwarth</hi> on the Green.</opener>
> >  > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Loyal Health.</hi> Or, <hi>Why are my
> >  > eyes &s;till flowing,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
> >  > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Hey Boys up go we.</hi></opener>
> >  > <opener>To the Tune of, King <hi>Iames's</hi>Jigg; Or, The Country
> >  > Farmer.</opener>
> >  > <opener>To the Tune of, Tender hearts of <hi>London</hi> City.</opener>
> >  > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>I have a Mi&s;tris of my own.</hi></opener>
> >  > <opener>To the Tune of the bony Broom.</opener>
> >  > <opener>To the Tune of <hi>Packintons pound.</hi></opener>
> >  > <opener>To the tune of, I tell you but &s;o.</opener>
> >  > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Jenny Gin.</hi> or, the fair one let me
> >  > in.</opener>
> >  > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Bodkins Galliard.</hi></opener>
> >  > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Guinea Wins her.</hi></opener>
> >  > <opener>To the tune of, <hi>The Fleat at Sea.</hi></opener>
> >  > <opener>To the Tune of, Royal News, Royal News.</opener>
> >  > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Bleeding Heart,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
> >  > <opener>To the Tune of Packingtons Pound; Or, Digby's farewel.</opener>
> >  > <opener>To the Tune of St. <hi>George.</hi></opener>
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > pfs
> >  >
> >  >
> >  > On Thu, Jul 11, 2019, at 20:32, Steven L. Newman wrote:
> >  > >
> >  > > Dear Learned List,
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > > I am part of a team working on a TEI and MEI edition of *The Beggar’s
> >  > > Opera *as part of a larger DH site; we have started coding the text,
> >  > > and I’d be grateful if you could help us with a tagging issue that has
> >  > > emerged. There are 69 songs in the play, and they are set to various
> >  > > airs (almost all of them identified in the text). We want to tag them
> >  > > for many reasons—to pull them out and link them with the sources, to
> >  > > link them with the MEI component of the site, audio clips, etc. But the
> >  > > P5 guidelines do not seem to offer a specific tag. I searched the tei-l
> >  > > archives and the only suggestion I could find dates from 10 years ago,
> >  > > from Paul Schaffner at the University of Michigan, suggesting <head
> >  > > type="tune”>as the way to go. That may still be the best option, but I
> >  > > wanted to see if you all had any alternatives to suggest. As an
> >  > > example, here is the first song in the text:
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > > floatingText xml:lang="eng">
> >  > > <body>
> >  > > <div type="song" n="1">
> >  > >
> >  > > <head>AIR I. An old Woman cloathed in Gray, &amp;</head>
> >  > >
> >  > > <l>Through all the Employments of Life</l>
> >  > > <l>Each Neighbour abuses his Brother;</l>
> >  > > <l>Whore and Rogue they call Husband and Wife:</l>
> >  > > <l>All Professions be-rogue one another.</l>
> >  > > <l>The Priest calls the Lawyer a Cheat,</l>
> >  > > <l>The Lawyer be-knaves the Divine;</l>
> >  > > <l>And the Statesman, because he’s so great,</l>
> >  > > <l>Thinks his Trade as honest as mine.</l>
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > > </div>
> >  > > </body>
> >  > > </floatingText>
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > > Thank you!
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > > Sincerely,
> >  > >
> >  > > Steve
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  > > Steve Newman, Ph.D.
> >  > >
> >  > > Associate Professor
> >  > >
> >  > > Department of English
> >  > >
> >  > > Editor, *The Gentle Shepherd *for *The Edinburgh Allan Ramsay *(Edinburgh UP)
> >  > >
> >  > > President, Temple Association of University Professionals (AFT #4531)
> >  > >
> >  > > https://sites.temple.edu/snewmanbio/ 
> >  > >
> >  > >
> >  >
> >  > --
> >  > Paul Schaffner Digital Content & Collections
> >  > University of Michigan Libraries
> >  > [hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/
> >
> >  --
> >  Paul Schaffner Digital Content & Collections
> >  University of Michigan Libraries
> > [hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/

--
Paul Schaffner  Digital Content & Collections
University of Michigan Libraries
[hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: suggestions on tagging tunes?

Grace Wiersma-2
Hi Paul,

Thanks for your explanation ("...not actually heads to the songs that they seem to head...") and practical solution(s) using <opener> and/or <div type="music">. I beg to be excused for chiming in without offering any further suggestion on how to tag tunes using P5. It's late Friday afternoon in my time zone. For those in different zones, feel free to bypass. Regarding:

    >> It would seem to be a referring string, a title of sorts (usually of the incipit sort), maybe even a condensed quotation...

Possibly I misunderstood, but I would quibble with you on "usually of the incipit sort..." since there can't be a linguistic equivalent to the musical subject or melody embodied by a tune. True, some scores written by some composers have symbolized linguistic forms in their use of particular note sequences (e.g. B-A-C-H) but that is both rare and unrelated to the problem at hand.

True, the important but elusive distinction between a tune name (or designation) and the handle of a song text conventionally associated with it (after such text has been "set to music") is often encountered within the domain of hymnology and/or congregational singing. The title of a tune is circumstantial, in the sense that it may have arisen for any number of reasons that "reason does not know." For convincing evidence of the complex relationships between tunes and metrical texts, you are right in pointing to 3 representations of the same tune (Arlington) on pages from different hymnals. Of course, that tune does not appear in the lower left page/example: "No 49" represents a different setting of the text by Watts, while the upper right "No 224" does indeed represent the tune Arlington, but as applied in a setting of another text, by Wesley. Maybe obvious, but I thought it might be helpful to also note how, in addition to the unstandardized approaches to commingling of attribute information as illustrated by those pages, the attribute types themselves are generally distinguished at the back of the book, where one will find multiple distinct indexes: aside from the index of composer names, and another for the names of authors (of hymn texts), there will also be the somewhat esoteric "index of tune names" and the all-important "index of first lines." A page or numeric reference to one and the same Hymn entity (any one having all four attributes intact) will likely be found in each of the separate indexes within the same book. How to handle all this in an encoding situation is still beyond me but I applaud your efforts as mentioned.

In a recent search for corroborative literature on tune names as distinct from the texts that are "set to" them (sometimes by an arranger--adding another attribute to the mix), I stumbled upon a Hathi Trust copy of an amusing treatise published in 1957: https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/006697028 (Hymn tune names: their sources and significance, by Robert Guy McCutchan).

Grace Wiersma
 
--
Sent from Postbox


Paul Schaffner wrote on 7/12/2019 1:39 PM:
I'm floundering about as usual, but I think the problem, Lou, is
that the 'heads' are not actually heads to the songs that they seem to
head -- they are the heads of prior songs associated with particular
tunes, and therefore, effectively tune names; they are specifically the heads
of the ballads from which Gay made his pastiche, and therefore not
properly the heads of his versions at all. So Air II bears the
head "the bonny gray-eyed morn" -- but that title has nothing to
do with the text of his air, and is therefore not properly the head
of the air in question: it is actually a reference to a published
ballad (https://digital.nls.uk/broadsides/view/?id=14483) and to
the tune associated with that ballad. Which is why I brought up
the familiar "to the tune of..." lines so familiar in the broadside
ballads. Gay's 'titles' are functioning much as the "to the tune of.."
lines function.  

But i may have misunderstood! Someone will correct me.

pfs

On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, at 13:10, Lou Burnard wrote:
[coming a bit late to the party]

I'm a simple minded person, so I think a simple solutions are generally 
preferable .

1. The songs in the Beggar's Opera are definitely parts of the text 
rather than interruptions to it -- so I wouldn't use <floatingText> for 
them, but <lg>
2. Things like "Air 1 - "An old woman, clothed in grey" are headings 
for the songs that follow, so I would use <head> for them
3. The phrase "An old woman, clothed in grey" is the title of a song, 
so I would use <title> for it (within the <head>)
4. I would align the title element with any available standard entry 
for that song in a catalogue, if there is one, by means of its @ref 
attribute
5. If I have an MEI (or something else) version of the song, I would 
use @corresp or @source to point to it -- it's not part of the text I 
am transcribing so I'd be cautious about including it in my transcript.




On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 at 14:26, Paul Schaffner [hidden email] wrote:
That, of course, is for the tune designation at the head (or foot) of
 a ballad, etc. On the other hand, the tune name itself, which I've tagged here as 
 simply <hi>, is another matter, and may be regarded as any number of other 
 things, I suppose, for which suggestions are welcome. It would seem to be
 a referring string, a title of sorts (usually of the incipit sort), maybe
 even a condensed quotation.

 pfs

 On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, at 09:15, Paul Schaffner wrote:
 > For what it's worth, and it isn't much, since I do not now recall
 > my rationale for choosing this option, we in the end chose to
 > place tune designations in <opener>. Thus:
 > 
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Jockey.</hi></opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, Queen <hi>Dido.</hi></opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Crim&s;on velvet,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
 > <opener>To the tune of, Dulcina.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of <hi>How Unhappy is <hi>Phillis</hi> in 
 > Love.</hi></opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Evening Ramble,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Pollwarth</hi> on the Green.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Loyal Health.</hi> Or, <hi>Why are my 
 > eyes &s;till flowing,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Hey Boys up go we.</hi></opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, King <hi>Iames's</hi>Jigg; Or, The Country 
 > Farmer.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, Tender hearts of <hi>London</hi> City.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>I have a Mi&s;tris of my own.</hi></opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of the bony Broom.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of <hi>Packintons pound.</hi></opener>
 > <opener>To the tune of, I tell you but &s;o.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Jenny Gin.</hi> or, the fair one let me 
 > in.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Bodkins Galliard.</hi></opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Guinea Wins her.</hi></opener>
 > <opener>To the tune of, <hi>The Fleat at Sea.</hi></opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, Royal News, Royal News.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Bleeding Heart,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of Packingtons Pound; Or, Digby's farewel.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of St. <hi>George.</hi></opener>
 > 
 > 
 > pfs
 > 
 > 
 > On Thu, Jul 11, 2019, at 20:32, Steven L. Newman wrote:
 > > 
 > > Dear Learned List,
 > > 
 > > 
 > > I am part of a team working on a TEI and MEI edition of *The Beggar’s 
 > > Opera *as part of a larger DH site; we have started coding the text, 
 > > and I’d be grateful if you could help us with a tagging issue that has 
 > > emerged. There are 69 songs in the play, and they are set to various 
 > > airs (almost all of them identified in the text). We want to tag them 
 > > for many reasons—to pull them out and link them with the sources, to 
 > > link them with the MEI component of the site, audio clips, etc. But the 
 > > P5 guidelines do not seem to offer a specific tag. I searched the tei-l 
 > > archives and the only suggestion I could find dates from 10 years ago, 
 > > from Paul Schaffner at the University of Michigan, suggesting <head 
 > > type="tune”>as the way to go. That may still be the best option, but I 
 > > wanted to see if you all had any alternatives to suggest. As an 
 > > example, here is the first song in the text:
 > > 
 > > 
 > > floatingText xml:lang="eng">
 > > <body>
 > > <div type="song" n="1">
 > > 
 > > <head>AIR I. An old Woman cloathed in Gray, &amp;</head>
 > > 
 > > <l>Through all the Employments of Life</l>
 > > <l>Each Neighbour abuses his Brother;</l>
 > > <l>Whore and Rogue they call Husband and Wife:</l>
 > > <l>All Professions be-rogue one another.</l>
 > > <l>The Priest calls the Lawyer a Cheat,</l>
 > > <l>The Lawyer be-knaves the Divine;</l>
 > > <l>And the Statesman, because he’s so great,</l>
 > > <l>Thinks his Trade as honest as mine.</l>
 > > 
 > > 
 > > </div>
 > > </body>
 > > </floatingText>
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > Thank you! 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > Sincerely,
 > > 
 > > Steve 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > Steve Newman, Ph.D.
 > > 
 > > Associate Professor
 > > 
 > > Department of English
 > > 
 > > Editor, *The Gentle Shepherd *for *The Edinburgh Allan Ramsay *(Edinburgh UP) 
 > > 
 > > President, Temple Association of University Professionals (AFT #4531)
 > > 
 > > https://sites.temple.edu/snewmanbio/ 
 > > 
 > >
 > 
 > -- 
 > Paul Schaffner Digital Content & Collections
 > University of Michigan Libraries
 > [hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/

 -- 
 Paul Schaffner Digital Content & Collections
 University of Michigan Libraries
[hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: suggestions on tagging tunes?

Steven L. Newman

Dear List,


Thanks to Grace Wiersma, Lou Burnard, Paul Schafnner, Martin Holmes, Syd Bauman, and C. M. Sperberg-McQueen for these thoughtful and helpful responses!  (Thanks, too, for catching the en/eng mistake.)  You have given me and the rest of the team much to think about.

 

Working backwards from the exchange between Grace and Paul, I should clarify the nature of the songs in The Beggar’s Opera, which overlap with their discussion.  The heavy majority of them cite the first line of a song that the audience probably would have known, though sometimes it is keyed to the refrain or to the separate title of the song.  As Syd writes, they are sung to different lyrics—to further the plot, as he says, but often to allude to parallels in motive and situation and, often enough, for ironic juxtaposition, between, say, the sentimentality of the source song and the dissembling cynicism we see among almost all of the characters.

To complicate matters further, there are two airs that are not given titles, though they have been identified via the music printed at the end of the edition—which is what we are encoding in MEI. 

The majority of the songs are what we might call popular, though that is certainly a dangerous term, especially given the heterogeneity of printed matter set to music in Gay’s time:  broadside ballads, song books, etc.  And then there’s the profound differences in nomenclature and systems of value between 1728 and the other side of the so-called Ballad Revival, something I and many other scholars have written on.  

There is also “The March in Rinaldo,” referring to a higher source, Handel’s opera, and reminding the audience that among the many agendas this text has is to satirize elite opera, though Gay also wrote the libretto for Acis and Galatea.  Syd is correct to think of The Beggar’s Opera as a musical; more specifically, it is the founding text of the subgenre known as ballad opera—there are nearly 200 in the decades that follow.)

 

But getting a handle on just what is being named by this string of words is complicated, along the lines that Grace and Paul indicate. Take  “An Old Woman Cloathed in Gray.”  As William Eben Schultz wrote back in 1923, in a miscellaneous collection of English Songs in the British Museum, this is the first line of a song with scored music c. 1705. In C. M. Simpson’s The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music (1966), he refers the reader to a collection from 1723-25 in which can be found “The Worcestershire Wedding”; its first line is “An old Woman cloathed in gray” and is sung to the tune “Kind Husband and Imperious Wife.”  But he also notes that the c.1705 sheet is set to a tune called “Unconstant Roger” and that is the tune we find in the scored music in Gay.  (This tune is one of the few that Weill actually uses in The Threepenny Opera.)   The doubleness of them as text and music recommends Paul’s approach.

That the music does appear in the published edition may assuage Lou’s concern that it is not part of “the text that is being transcribed.”  While the music will be encoded using MEI, of course, it is part of the text.  One of the things we are trying to rectify in this edition is the separating of text and music, which has been the case in the scholarly editions of The Beggar’s Opera.  But I still think @corresp is a viable way to go given that it will be encoded differently.  (How we will mesh the MEI and TEI is another important design question.  I’ve been in touch with Raffaele Viglianti at Maryland a while back for some thoughts on how to do that.)

 

Our aim, to answer Syd’s question, in specifically identifying the title, is three-fold:  1) to be able to key it into the MEI encoding of the score.  2)  to be able to link it to the library of source texts we are assembling, and 3) to be able to link it to the audio and audio-visual clips that will be part of the site.  (This will take a lot of different kinds of programming, of course, especially #3.)  The suggestions he makes are all worth discussing among the team.   

 

Lou also raises an interesting point about the continuity/discontinuity of the songs.  On one hand, I think he’s right—the songs are integral to the play and thus maybe <lg> would be in order.  And yet they are also detachable, both in the sense that they have themselves been detached and allude to other songs and are detachable in that single songs from The Beggar’s Opera circulate.


Again, much to think about here.   I’m off for a week and out of easy email contact but will do my best to check so that I can profit further from your suggestions.


Sincerely,


Steve


 






 

 

 

From: TEI (Text Encoding Initiative) public discussion list <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Grace Wiersma
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2019 5:31 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: suggestions on tagging tunes?

 

Hi Paul,

Thanks for your explanation ("...not actually heads to the songs that they seem to head...") and practical solution(s) using <opener> and/or <div type="music">. I beg to be excused for chiming in without offering any further suggestion on how to tag tunes using P5. It's late Friday afternoon in my time zone. For those in different zones, feel free to bypass. Regarding:

    >> It would seem to be a referring string, a title of sorts (usually of the incipit sort), maybe even a condensed quotation...

Possibly I misunderstood, but I would quibble with you on "usually of the incipit sort..." since there can't be a linguistic equivalent to the musical subject or melody embodied by a tune. True, some scores written by some composers have symbolized linguistic forms in their use of particular note sequences (e.g. B-A-C-H) but that is both rare and unrelated to the problem at hand.

True, the important but elusive distinction between a tune name (or designation) and the handle of a song text conventionally associated with it (after such text has been "set to music") is often encountered within the domain of hymnology and/or congregational singing. The title of a tune is circumstantial, in the sense that it may have arisen for any number of reasons that "reason does not know." For convincing evidence of the complex relationships between tunes and metrical texts, you are right in pointing to 3 representations of the same tune (Arlington) on pages from different hymnals. Of course, that tune does not appear in the lower left page/example: "No 49" represents a different setting of the text by Watts, while the upper right "No 224" does indeed represent the tune Arlington, but as applied in a setting of another text, by Wesley. Maybe obvious, but I thought it might be helpful to also note how, in addition to the unstandardized approaches to commingling of attribute information as illustrated by those pages, the attribute types themselves are generally distinguished at the back of the book, where one will find multiple distinct indexes: aside from the index of composer names, and another for the names of authors (of hymn texts), there will also be the somewhat esoteric "index of tune names" and the all-important "index of first lines." A page or numeric reference to one and the same Hymn entity (any one having all four attributes intact) will likely be found in each of the separate indexes within the same book. How to handle all this in an encoding situation is still beyond me but I applaud your efforts as mentioned.

In a recent search for corroborative literature on tune names as distinct from the texts that are "set to" them (sometimes by an arranger--adding another attribute to the mix), I stumbled upon a Hathi Trust copy of an amusing treatise published in 1957: https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/006697028 (Hymn tune names: their sources and significance, by Robert Guy McCutchan).

Grace Wiersma
 

--

Sent from Postbox



Paul Schaffner wrote on 7/12/2019 1:39 PM:

I'm floundering about as usual, but I think the problem, Lou, is
that the 'heads' are not actually heads to the songs that they seem to
head -- they are the heads of prior songs associated with particular
tunes, and therefore, effectively tune names; they are specifically the heads
of the ballads from which Gay made his pastiche, and therefore not
properly the heads of his versions at all. So Air II bears the
head "the bonny gray-eyed morn" -- but that title has nothing to
do with the text of his air, and is therefore not properly the head
of the air in question: it is actually a reference to a published
ballad (https://digital.nls.uk/broadsides/view/?id=14483) and to
the tune associated with that ballad. Which is why I brought up
the familiar "to the tune of..." lines so familiar in the broadside
ballads. Gay's 'titles' are functioning much as the "to the tune of.."
lines function.  
 
But i may have misunderstood! Someone will correct me.
 
pfs
 
On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, at 13:10, Lou Burnard wrote:
[coming a bit late to the party]
 
I'm a simple minded person, so I think a simple solutions are generally 
preferable .
 
1. The songs in the Beggar's Opera are definitely parts of the text 
rather than interruptions to it -- so I wouldn't use <floatingText> for 
them, but <lg>
2. Things like "Air 1 - "An old woman, clothed in grey" are headings 
for the songs that follow, so I would use <head> for them
3. The phrase "An old woman, clothed in grey" is the title of a song, 
so I would use <title> for it (within the <head>)
4. I would align the title element with any available standard entry 
for that song in a catalogue, if there is one, by means of its @ref 
attribute
5. If I have an MEI (or something else) version of the song, I would 
use @corresp or @source to point to it -- it's not part of the text I 
am transcribing so I'd be cautious about including it in my transcript.
 
 
 
 
On Fri, 12 Jul 2019 at 14:26, Paul Schaffner [hidden email] wrote:
That, of course, is for the tune designation at the head (or foot) of
 a ballad, etc. On the other hand, the tune name itself, which I've tagged here as 
 simply <hi>, is another matter, and may be regarded as any number of other 
 things, I suppose, for which suggestions are welcome. It would seem to be
 a referring string, a title of sorts (usually of the incipit sort), maybe
 even a condensed quotation.
 
 pfs
 
 On Fri, Jul 12, 2019, at 09:15, Paul Schaffner wrote:
 > For what it's worth, and it isn't much, since I do not now recall
 > my rationale for choosing this option, we in the end chose to
 > place tune designations in <opener>. Thus:
 > 
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Jockey.</hi></opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, Queen <hi>Dido.</hi></opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Crim&s;on velvet,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
 > <opener>To the tune of, Dulcina.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of <hi>How Unhappy is <hi>Phillis</hi> in 
 > Love.</hi></opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Evening Ramble,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Pollwarth</hi> on the Green.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Loyal Health.</hi> Or, <hi>Why are my 
 > eyes &s;till flowing,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Hey Boys up go we.</hi></opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, King <hi>Iames's</hi>Jigg; Or, The Country 
 > Farmer.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, Tender hearts of <hi>London</hi> City.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>I have a Mi&s;tris of my own.</hi></opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of the bony Broom.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of <hi>Packintons pound.</hi></opener>
 > <opener>To the tune of, I tell you but &s;o.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Jenny Gin.</hi> or, the fair one let me 
 > in.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>Bodkins Galliard.</hi></opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Guinea Wins her.</hi></opener>
 > <opener>To the tune of, <hi>The Fleat at Sea.</hi></opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, Royal News, Royal News.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of, <hi>The Bleeding Heart,</hi> &amp;c.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of Packingtons Pound; Or, Digby's farewel.</opener>
 > <opener>To the Tune of St. <hi>George.</hi></opener>
 > 
 > 
 > pfs
 > 
 > 
 > On Thu, Jul 11, 2019, at 20:32, Steven L. Newman wrote:
 > > 
 > > Dear Learned List,
 > > 
 > > 
 > > I am part of a team working on a TEI and MEI edition of *The Beggar’s 
 > > Opera *as part of a larger DH site; we have started coding the text, 
 > > and I’d be grateful if you could help us with a tagging issue that has 
 > > emerged. There are 69 songs in the play, and they are set to various 
 > > airs (almost all of them identified in the text). We want to tag them 
 > > for many reasons—to pull them out and link them with the sources, to 
 > > link them with the MEI component of the site, audio clips, etc. But the 
 > > P5 guidelines do not seem to offer a specific tag. I searched the tei-l 
 > > archives and the only suggestion I could find dates from 10 years ago, 
 > > from Paul Schaffner at the University of Michigan, suggesting <head 
 > > type="tune”>as the way to go. That may still be the best option, but I 
 > > wanted to see if you all had any alternatives to suggest. As an 
 > > example, here is the first song in the text:
 > > 
 > > 
 > > floatingText xml:lang="eng">
 > > <body>
 > > <div type="song" n="1">
 > > 
 > > <head>AIR I. An old Woman cloathed in Gray, &amp;</head>
 > > 
 > > <l>Through all the Employments of Life</l>
 > > <l>Each Neighbour abuses his Brother;</l>
 > > <l>Whore and Rogue they call Husband and Wife:</l>
 > > <l>All Professions be-rogue one another.</l>
 > > <l>The Priest calls the Lawyer a Cheat,</l>
 > > <l>The Lawyer be-knaves the Divine;</l>
 > > <l>And the Statesman, because he’s so great,</l>
 > > <l>Thinks his Trade as honest as mine.</l>
 > > 
 > > 
 > > </div>
 > > </body>
 > > </floatingText>
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > Thank you! 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > Sincerely,
 > > 
 > > Steve 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > 
 > > Steve Newman, Ph.D.
 > > 
 > > Associate Professor
 > > 
 > > Department of English
 > > 
 > > Editor, *The Gentle Shepherd *for *The Edinburgh Allan Ramsay *(Edinburgh UP) 
 > > 
 > > President, Temple Association of University Professionals (AFT #4531)
 > > 
 > > https://sites.temple.edu/snewmanbio/ 
 > > 
 > >
 > 
 > -- 
 > Paul Schaffner Digital Content & Collections
 > University of Michigan Libraries
 > [hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/
 
 -- 
 Paul Schaffner Digital Content & Collections
 University of Michigan Libraries
[hidden email] | http://www.umich.edu/~pfs/