use of persName

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use of persName

Ioana Galleron
Dear list,

To what extend using the element <persName> in the following case is a tag abuse?
<persName ana="#DDC">Mr le Duc</persName>

I am asking this because guidelines say that "<persName> (personal name) contains a proper noun or proper-noun phrase referring to a person, possibly including one or more of the person's forenames, surnames, honorifics, added names, etc. »: in my case, there is no proper noun, in spite of the capitalisation, and at no moment in the document the reference is resolved with a proper name. However, considering the context it cannot be but Louis III de Bourbon Condé, so-called Monsieur le Duc.

Further on, it is not clear to me how I can solve further references to the same person, such as in « la familiarité de ce prince » (problem is the text refers to several princes, so for a novice reader a way of saying « this is the prince he’s taling about » may be useful).
My choice so far is :
la familiarité de <persName ana="#DDC">ce prince</persName>
but this looks even more a tag abuse than above.
Is <ref> more suited for this? Or another element?

I suppose these are trivial questions for those having handled lots of personography, but I couldn’t really spot useful examples. Thanks in advance for your help!

Ioana Galleron


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Re: use of persName

Lou Burnard-6
The element is provided for precisely such cases.

Sent from my Huawei Mobile

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: use of persName
From: Ioana Galleron
To: [hidden email]
CC:

Dear list,

To what extend using the element <persName> in the following case is a tag abuse?
<persName ana="#DDC">Mr le Duc</persName>

I am asking this because guidelines say that "<persName> (personal name) contains a proper noun or proper-noun phrase referring to a person, possibly including one or more of the person's forenames, surnames, honorifics, added names, etc. »: in my case, there is no proper noun, in spite of the capitalisation, and at no moment in the document the reference is resolved with a proper name. However, considering the context it cannot be but Louis III de Bourbon Condé, so-called Monsieur le Duc.

Further on, it is not clear to me how I can solve further references to the same person, such as in « la familiarité de ce prince » (problem is the text refers to several princes, so for a novice reader a way of saying « this is the prince he’s taling about » may be useful).
My choice so far is :
la familiarité de <persName ana="#DDC">ce prince</persName>
but this looks even more a tag abuse than above.
Is <ref> more suited for this? Or another element?

I suppose these are trivial questions for those having handled lots of personography, but I couldn’t really spot useful examples. Thanks in advance for your help!

Ioana Galleron


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Re: use of persName

Lou Burnard-6
The element RS Is provided for this purpose

Sent from my Huawei Mobile

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: use of persName
From: Lou Burnard
To: [hidden email]
CC:

The element is provided for precisely such cases.

Sent from my Huawei Mobile

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: use of persName
From: Ioana Galleron
To: [hidden email]
CC:

Dear list,

To what extend using the element <persName> in the following case is a tag abuse?
<persName ana="#DDC">Mr le Duc</persName>

I am asking this because guidelines say that "<persName> (personal name) contains a proper noun or proper-noun phrase referring to a person, possibly including one or more of the person's forenames, surnames, honorifics, added names, etc. »: in my case, there is no proper noun, in spite of the capitalisation, and at no moment in the document the reference is resolved with a proper name. However, considering the context it cannot be but Louis III de Bourbon Condé, so-called Monsieur le Duc.

Further on, it is not clear to me how I can solve further references to the same person, such as in « la familiarité de ce prince » (problem is the text refers to several princes, so for a novice reader a way of saying « this is the prince he’s taling about » may be useful).
My choice so far is :
la familiarité de <persName ana="#DDC">ce prince</persName>
but this looks even more a tag abuse than above.
Is <ref> more suited for this? Or another element?

I suppose these are trivial questions for those having handled lots of personography, but I couldn’t really spot useful examples. Thanks in advance for your help!

Ioana Galleron


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Re: use of persName

Elisa Beshero-Bondar-2
Hi, Ionna— I remember being uncertain for a while too, about this matter of *how* to tag persons when they are not being called by a proper name. I’ll just build on Lou’s response that yes, indeed, the rs element is the appropriate one to work with, and it means “referencing string”, that is a “general purpose name or referring string”—a stretch of text that **refers to** a named entity of some kind. I’m aware of projects that just run with the rs element instead of bothering with the others on the grounds that it’s the simplest way to refer to any and all references to something named, and they’ll differentiate with attributes as in:
rs @type=“person”
rs @type=“place”

In my projects I chose the persName and placeName elements for tagging when proper names appear, and I trot out rs when they don’t (mostly I think from inertia). Of course if you have a personography and placeography listing up in your TEI header (it can go inside the profileDesc in particDesc) or in a separate TEI file, you really don’t need to type those rs tags at all—just use @ref attributes to point to their canonical listings with full information. These are basically link references to another location in the same file or another location in a separate file where you expand on information available about a particular named entity. 

Personography coding can be tough to figure out at first, but it always helps to see some examples. I was just sharing this in a TEI exercise with my students last week, so here’s a little example I wrote up for them: 

Here I’ve tucked the personography stuff in the back element, but as I indicate later it’s probably best to go up in profileDesc if you’re holding this info all in the same file. And best of all is to use a separate file for name-ography listings if you have a big project, where the listPerson, listPlace, list-whatever is basically the body of the TEI document. All your project files can then point to that file for de-referencing. 

Hope that’s useful! 
Best,
Elisa
-- 
Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD
Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English
University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division
150 Finoli Drive
Greensburg, PA  15601  USA
E-mail:[hidden email]
Development site: http://newtfire.org






On Sep 24, 2017, at 1:06 PM, Lou Burnard <[hidden email]> wrote:

The element RS Is provided for this purpose

Sent from my Huawei Mobile

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: use of persName
From: Lou Burnard
To: [hidden email]
CC:

The element is provided for precisely such cases.

Sent from my Huawei Mobile

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: use of persName
From: Ioana Galleron
To: [hidden email]
CC:

Dear list,

To what extend using the element <persName> in the following case is a tag abuse?
<persName ana="#DDC">Mr le Duc</persName>

I am asking this because guidelines say that "<persName> (personal name) contains a proper noun or proper-noun phrase referring to a person, possibly including one or more of the person's forenames, surnames, honorifics, added names, etc. »: in my case, there is no proper noun, in spite of the capitalisation, and at no moment in the document the reference is resolved with a proper name. However, considering the context it cannot be but Louis III de Bourbon Condé, so-called Monsieur le Duc.

Further on, it is not clear to me how I can solve further references to the same person, such as in « la familiarité de ce prince » (problem is the text refers to several princes, so for a novice reader a way of saying « this is the prince he’s taling about » may be useful).
My choice so far is :
la familiarité de <persName ana="#DDC">ce prince</persName>
but this looks even more a tag abuse than above.
Is <ref> more suited for this? Or another element?

I suppose these are trivial questions for those having handled lots of personography, but I couldn’t really spot useful examples. Thanks in advance for your help!

Ioana Galleron



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Re: use of persName

Elisa Beshero-Bondar-2
PS: I should clarify what I meant by "you really don’t need to type those rs tags at all”: I mean you wouldn’t actually need to add an @type attribute at all, if you’ve got a separate personography listing in place and you’re using @ref attributes to point out to that list.

Elisa
-- 
Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD
Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English
University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division
150 Finoli Drive
Greensburg, PA  15601  USA
E-mail:[hidden email]
Development site: http://newtfire.org






On Sep 24, 2017, at 1:28 PM, Elisa Beshero-Bondar <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi, Ionna— I remember being uncertain for a while too, about this matter of *how* to tag persons when they are not being called by a proper name. I’ll just build on Lou’s response that yes, indeed, the rs element is the appropriate one to work with, and it means “referencing string”, that is a “general purpose name or referring string”—a stretch of text that **refers to** a named entity of some kind. I’m aware of projects that just run with the rs element instead of bothering with the others on the grounds that it’s the simplest way to refer to any and all references to something named, and they’ll differentiate with attributes as in:
rs @type=“person”
rs @type=“place”

In my projects I chose the persName and placeName elements for tagging when proper names appear, and I trot out rs when they don’t (mostly I think from inertia). Of course if you have a personography and placeography listing up in your TEI header (it can go inside the profileDesc in particDesc) or in a separate TEI file, you really don’t need to type those rs tags at all—just use @ref attributes to point to their canonical listings with full information. These are basically link references to another location in the same file or another location in a separate file where you expand on information available about a particular named entity. 

Personography coding can be tough to figure out at first, but it always helps to see some examples. I was just sharing this in a TEI exercise with my students last week, so here’s a little example I wrote up for them: 

Here I’ve tucked the personography stuff in the back element, but as I indicate later it’s probably best to go up in profileDesc if you’re holding this info all in the same file. And best of all is to use a separate file for name-ography listings if you have a big project, where the listPerson, listPlace, list-whatever is basically the body of the TEI document. All your project files can then point to that file for de-referencing. 

Hope that’s useful! 
Best,
Elisa
-- 
Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD
Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English
University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division
150 Finoli Drive
Greensburg, PA  15601  USA
E-mail:[hidden email]
Development site: http://newtfire.org






On Sep 24, 2017, at 1:06 PM, Lou Burnard <[hidden email]> wrote:

The element RS Is provided for this purpose

Sent from my Huawei Mobile

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: use of persName
From: Lou Burnard
To: [hidden email]
CC:

The element is provided for precisely such cases.

Sent from my Huawei Mobile

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: use of persName
From: Ioana Galleron
To: [hidden email]
CC:

Dear list,

To what extend using the element <persName> in the following case is a tag abuse?
<persName ana="#DDC">Mr le Duc</persName>

I am asking this because guidelines say that "<persName> (personal name) contains a proper noun or proper-noun phrase referring to a person, possibly including one or more of the person's forenames, surnames, honorifics, added names, etc. »: in my case, there is no proper noun, in spite of the capitalisation, and at no moment in the document the reference is resolved with a proper name. However, considering the context it cannot be but Louis III de Bourbon Condé, so-called Monsieur le Duc.

Further on, it is not clear to me how I can solve further references to the same person, such as in « la familiarité de ce prince » (problem is the text refers to several princes, so for a novice reader a way of saying « this is the prince he’s taling about » may be useful).
My choice so far is :
la familiarité de <persName ana="#DDC">ce prince</persName>
but this looks even more a tag abuse than above.
Is <ref> more suited for this? Or another element?

I suppose these are trivial questions for those having handled lots of personography, but I couldn’t really spot useful examples. Thanks in advance for your help!

Ioana Galleron